HIGH TENSION Who does it?

[Dottonedan]

So we've all heard and read about the HIGH TENSION screens. We know it's supposed to increase production print speed and you should have all of your screen tension consistent ranging between the 110's on up to the 300's. Newman is rated for  up to 40N on the 300's and would seem to be the best case scenario to have all screens from 110 on up to the 300's to be at a consistent high tension.

With that said, how many of you actually achieve high tension on a regular basis?

How often do you pop screens?
For how long when starting out?
What are the common pit falls?


I'm referring to 35N and above.

[Doug S]

When I used to buy the newman mesh, I would to the best of my ability maintain a high tension and it was great especially for large spot area prints.  The mesh release with the high tension was great for production speed.  The only pit falls I found were that the press had to be calibrated to a higher standard to handle higher tension.  I've since swapped over to s mesh which can't handle the higher tension but really prints well at the lower tensions. 

For me, I would rather have a 280 tensioned at 25 newtons with s mesh than a 300 newman panel tensioned at 38 to 40 newtons.  For the popping issue, I've stopped trying get close to the max of the s mesh tension chart.  They were popping like fireworks when I tried.  I would get them stretched and racked to find out they were busted the next morning.  I try to get within 4 newtons of the max and it solved the issue.

I have to say that a properly maintained roller frame paired with the i image is a match made in heaven.  Registration is 99% spot on.

[Colin]

What thread diameter are you asking about?

Thin thread?
Standard thread?
Thicker newman thread?

[Dottonedan]

What thread diameter are you asking about?

Thin thread?
Standard thread?
Thicker newman thread?

Any thread type if it's providing high tension. I'm not looking for types but rather to know (if there any many or any shop are successful at high tentioning.

[Printficient]

What presses do you have?

[Dottonedan]

What presses do you have?

Again, I'm not asking about what we do.   I'm asking  (if others are doing high tension well and how).

[Printficient]

What presses do you have?

Again, I'm not asking about what we do.   I'm asking  (if others are doing high tension well and how).

To really answer you I would need to know the presses.  As was mentioned earlier the higher you go the tighter the tolerances you would need to hold.  Some presses would max out the ability to hold tolerances at say 20ncm. Others could theoretically hold tolerances for 40ncm+ screens.
Only a handful of presses can hold the tolerances for any newton level above 30.  Those would be Anatol Vindercator, MHM SA S2000 S3000 S4000 S5000 series presses.  These are presses with massive platen arms that would take an elephant to deflect.  I am in no way discounting any other press.  Any press with a platen arm of say 3-5" by 1-2" simply will not hold the tolerances of say 40ncm screens over an extended period of the forces being exerted on them. Simple Physics.
Next the amount of initial force needed to deflect the screen enough to release the ink raises almost exponentially as you raise the ncm.

On a side note counter intuitive to what you would think higher newton levels can cause print issues on high detail prints.  We are not printing a rosette pattern on a flat surface.  We are for all practical purposes printing as with water balloons of color on a mountain range.

[Dottonedan]

What presses do you have?

Again, I'm not asking about what we do.   I'm asking  (if others are doing high tension well and how).

To really answer you I would need to know the presses.  As was mentioned earlier the higher you go the tighter the tolerances you would need to hold.  Some presses would max out the ability to hold tolerances at say 20ncm. Others could theoretically hold tolerances for 40ncm+ screens.
Only a handful of presses can hold the tolerances for any newton level above 30.  Those would be Anatol Vindercator, MHM SA S2000 S3000 S4000 S5000 series presses.  These are presses with massive platen arms that would take an elephant to deflect.  I am in no way discounting any other press.  Any press with a platen arm of say 3-5" by 1-2" simply will not hold the tolerances of say 40ncm screens over an extended period of the forces being exerted on them. Simple Physics.
Next the amount of initial force needed to deflect the screen enough to release the ink raises almost exponentially as you raise the ncm.

On a side note counter intuitive to what you would think higher newton levels can cause print issues on high detail prints.  We are not printing a rosette pattern on a flat surface.  We are for all practical purposes printing as with water balloons of color on a mountain range.

Thanks for your willingness to contribute to the question. While full of content and ai say this with no disrespect,  it's not answering my question and some of the content doesn't pertain at all.

For example, there are plenty as in (more than an average amount) of Those who do indeed still do high tension, do this on M&R presses (that I know personally) and they have been for 10-15 years. Shops with a rep as a flawless operation. Several of those, I know personally. So this statement is not accurate. You mention it's simple physics and I would agree. I will correct you though. The fact that you are using higher tension on your screens actually enables you to print with (less force) and faster stroke. Not more force. You get a more open area, easier for the ink to flow and deposite more ink with less equipment effort.

2nd, the substrate is indeed different than flat stock materials....but, we know that.
There is no question there and we all print with that in mind.

Now, I am completely open to dumping the high tension idea if it can be proven that S thread will produce at the same or higher production (while also when needed, produce the high image detail) at the same time.

That may be the deciding factor. Maybe a combination could be in order as long as the tension is consistent.

Now, I'll say this. My statements are not based on 100% full of personal on hands experience. It's from reading articles from manufacturers, and Guru's and some things just click with me and fuse into my memory.

I willingly leave the window open to say "I could be wrong". Correct me if I am, but please provide some kind of proof or example to clarify so that we are all clear and we don't provide mid information. There is already plenty of that elsewhere.

Now, for those interested, please provide feedback on your exp. doing it or trying it.

Thank
Dan

[Printficient]

Fine.  In 1995 I managed a shop that had nothing but Newmans.  We kept 35ncm or better on all of the frames.  We used the newman mesh as well as just about every other.  I found the Dynamesh to be the most consistent.  With that said the only thing I will say to you is Document Document Document.  We had a log book that had all the particulars for every frame in production.  Each frame was stamped with a number.  The log had such info as tension; when re-tensioned; re-mesh initial, secondary and final tensions; number of impressions on each frame (total and curent).  There were a ton of other parameters that were specific to that shop.  Point being is it can be done but as with everything else in printing the more you track and document the better.

[Dottonedan]

Fine.  In 1995 I managed a shop that had nothing but Newmans.  We kept 35ncm or better on all of the frames.  We used the newman mesh as well as just about every other.  I found the Dynamesh to be the most consistent.  With that said the only thing I will say to you is Document Document Document.  We had a log book that had all the particulars for every frame in production.  Each frame was stamped with a number.  The log had such info as tension; when re-tensioned; re-mesh initial, secondary and final tensions; number of impressions on each frame (total and curent).  There were a ton of other parameters that were specific to that shop.  Point being is it can be done but as with everything else in printing the more you track and document the better.

Thanks!  Very good info. I am fully on board with the documentation idea.

Was it clear, that the higher tension did provide higher numbers over time?  Did you happen to have that documentation kept?  I know it's hard to compare unless you are running the same design the same way and for the same quantity.

Do you think that 35n on S thread on all mesh, will provide even more...or the same as 40n reg mesh?

[Printficient]

Fine.  In 1995 I managed a shop that had nothing but Newmans.  We kept 35ncm or better on all of the frames.  We used the newman mesh as well as just about every other.  I found the Dynamesh to be the most consistent.  With that said the only thing I will say to you is Document Document Document.  We had a log book that had all the particulars for every frame in production.  Each frame was stamped with a number.  The log had such info as tension; when re-tensioned; re-mesh initial, secondary and final tensions; number of impressions on each frame (total and curent).  There were a ton of other parameters that were specific to that shop.  Point being is it can be done but as with everything else in printing the more you track and document the better.

Thanks!  Very good info. I am fully on board with the documentation idea.

Was it clear, that the higher tension did provide higher numbers over time?  Did you happen to have that documentation kept?  I know it's hard to compare unless you are running the same design the same way and for the same quantity.

Do you think that 35n on S thread on all mesh, will provide even more...or the same as 40n reg mesh?

The higher tensions really did not show a significant increase.  What did as to numbers and ease of print was a set of screens within 2ncm + or - within each other.  This was using a Precision oval press.  I would hesitate to go to the upper end of the spectrum on "s" thread mesh.  The "reason" to use "s" thread mesh is for ink deposit and as such higher tensions are not needed.  Also, you should take into account the possible distortion of the opening at higher tension.  In truth there is no quantifiable benefit at anything over 25 or 30ncm.  The next quantifiable plateau is 60ncm or higher.  I would recommend smiling jacks or bevels for your ink moving media.  Another thing if you want to get the highest benefit from these tensions you will need to rethink your flooding protocols.

[starchild]

The opposite of low elongation is low modulus.. This is in refrence to thread type.. One's tension being high or low is based on the thread's characteristic of the two.. And not the intent on going faster..

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[Dottonedan]

Starchild,
I have no idea what you said, but it sounded cool. LOL.

What's the low elongation part referring to?  I only know of elongation (stretching) as a term for image distortions due to excessively low tension.

What is a high module?

Well, it's clear that if you have threads that hold higher tension, they open more, drop more ink, and as a result, you can print faster.

[starchild]

Starchild,
I have no idea what you said, but it sounded cool. LOL.

What's the low elongation part referring to?  I only know of elongation (stretching) as a term for image distortions due to excessively low tension.

What is a high module?

Well, it's clear that if you have threads that hold higher tension, they open more, drop more ink, and as a result, you can print faster.

First a correction- the opposite of low elongation is 'low' modulus..

A (mesh) material made to be resistant to deformation will produce high tensions with very little stretch so it has a low elongation tendency- it is high modulus.

A (mesh) material that is made to deform easily can be streched a lot and so will naturally produce very high tensions- It is low modulus.

One of the duties of tensioning is to produce a square opening (what we want is 90 at the warp and weft).. I threw in the degree scenario because some mesh are not weaved equally by wide variances warp and weft, so the opening is rectangular- the SS curve is imbalanced..

A low elongation mesh, with a balanced SS curve, will produce a squared mesh opening with let's say a 5% stretch from relaxed position and 20n of tension.

A high elongation mesh, with an imbalanced SS curve, will have to be stretched to let's say 15% of it's relaxed position And tension in the 30n's to even begin to have the opening get to 90 degree angles and because the ss curve is imbalanced the amount of stretch in the warp and weft will need diffetent values..

Because lower elongation mesh needs less tension to achieve balanced mesh openings, their thread thickness can be smaller and so will not take up as much space as their thicker thread counterpart- the result is higher percentage open areas..

Another duty of tension is to support the offcontact distance- lower offcontact distances increaces the tolerance of an image's registration.. So because a mesh is stretched to the upper 30's, image tolerance will naturally be achieved so printing at low offcontact will afford you less pressure and so higher speeds- A happy coincidence because it's not philosophicaly the correct way to calibrate your production for speed..

Specs for mesh is given in its relaxed state not stretched.. So the open area is what it is at any tension.. Mesh that is stretched squared will provide best open area but the thread diameter does not get thinner so percentage of open area remains the same..

The ink does not just fall through the  mesh opening along the way it slows down dead center of the opening due to the interference of the thread's round shape. It also has to travel pass the emulsion's thickness. You choose- Most threads are weaved so the knuckles produce a flatness angle (it's twice the thickness at the knuckles than the warp and weft thread) most of an emulsion coating is to address the knuckles.. Thinner threads = lower eom and thicker threads = higher eom.. Which gives the ink the shorter distances to travel..

Tension address the image first- an even deposit from blade edge to blade edge in register, and screen stabilization second- a healthy reuseable long lasting screen.

Tension (static) does not play a part in ink transfer..



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[Dottonedan]

Starchild,

You are my new hero!  You stay so quiet. Who knew you have so much great info.

Who is this masked man?