What's too many.......

[Printficient]

What would be an impression count on a 10 year old press that would be too many?

[jvanick]

do you mean theoretical?

if you ran a press 365 days a year, for 3 shifts at 4000 shirts/shift, that would be 4.38 million shirts a year....

so your 10 year example would be 40 million prints.

I would think if the press was kept well maintained, most of the wear parts would have worn out and replaced by that point... 

as long as everything was tight and in good shape, it probably doesn't really matter how many total prints are on it.

[screenprintguy]

man, if someone is getting that much out of one press a year, they should be able to scrap that 10 year old beast and update to the new tech on the block 

[Screen Dan]

If the carousel is smooth, level and there is no play then everything else can be (and most of it probably has been) repaired or replaced, so far as I've been told.

[blue moon]

depending on the press . . . if buying a used E-Type anything over 1.5 would be too much. It's not that it is not usable any more, it's that the wear and tear items now need constant attention which takes away from production and time to think about other things. (the Kelly Bundy principle, no room left in the brain to worry about the press issues).

pierre

[Printficient]

depending on the press . . . if buying a used E-Type anything over 1.5 would be too much. It's not that it is not usable any more, it's that the wear and tear items now need constant attention which takes away from production and time to think about other things. (the Kelly Bundy principle, no room left in the brain to worry about the press issues).

pierre

Are you saying 1.5 million as in 150k per year.  That is 3k impressions per week.  It wouldn't even be broke in. 

[alan802]

10 year old press...I'd say 10 million would cause me not to want to touch it.  Our press is 8.5 years old and we've only lost a half day of production over that time span which I'd say is pretty damn good reliability.  Our press has a little over 2 million impressions and with our production model we should start looking at replacing our auto.  It's still not giving us any downtime but it's no spring chicken any longer and I don't expect the next 8 years to be as reliable as the 1st 8 years.   

No way we could afford to have the press going down every couple of months or for longer periods of time like 1 or 2 full days.  We'd be behind 20 jobs if we were down for 2 days during many portions of the year.  I'm thinking that with a reliable machine, we should be able to run one for 5 years trouble free while putting about 350-400K impressions per year on it and that machine will have plenty of life left in it when we sold it. 

We've put more impressions on our machine the last 2.5 years than we did the previous 6 years combined.  I feel like a press should last 8-10 years minimum as the main workhorse of a fairly busy shop and a sleepy shop should get double that if they take care of the machine.  Impression count is somewhat important with proper context in that it doesn't tell the story on how a machine was cared for or how tough those impressions were on the press.  Imagine the shop that double strokes everything (or at least a large portion of their jobs) and prints with 50-60 psi on every head versus a shop like ours that will go months without a double stroke and hasn't printed anything above 30 psi in years.  The wear and tear on the two machines would be completely different even if they were the same age and had the same impressions count. 

[jsheridan]

We're talking a 2005 machine here and that's around the time that AC heads started to really take hold. You could order a brand new challanger II either all air or with a servo and ac heads.. lots of options to pick in those days.

my concern with a machine from those days would be the mechanical systems of the press. Lots of air and electrical lines in those days were snaked every which way was possible and many needed replacing as air leaks dominate the older press problems. Looking under the chopper of a CHII was like looking into a spiders web of sorts.

I'd be ok with a press that had a few million impressions and all the mechanicals were in good shape and had been maintained.

[inkman996]

Think like buying a car. If you buy a car at around 80K miles or so and the owner replaced anything yet that means you are going to be replacing a timing belt/chain, water pump maybe, alternator maybe, fuel pump maybe, tranny is not out of the question over 100K miles etc. If a press had many millions and nothing major went yet it probably means murphy will pay you a visit the second you take ownership.

[Full-SpectrumSeparator]

Sometimes there are other factors involved....

At the shop I'm working, they have a Chameleon sitting in the shed out back, which they purchased probably 20 years ago, brand new for something like 13k... its a 6-color, no air clamps and doesn't have the top deck for the additional 4 screens....   

I've set up a plan to give them $100 a week so I can get that press ASAP... they are willing to sell it for only 2k.... I should have it around December.   

Now to be fair, it will probably cost me another 2k to get the additional 4 heads and any parts I may need etc....

But the point is I don't care what condition the thing is in, that is an insane deal on a used chameleon, and I have wanted one for a while.

Proposal from M&R on a brand new 14-color with air-clamps was 25k.... but I don't have the business yet to be able to make that kind of purchase in addition to all the other equipment I need getting started, and it is best to start small - for example you only need a screen and a flat surface to actually print,  but  to actually get into some profitable multi-color work, I've had my eyes on the chameleon for a while, and running into this used one just sitting there and at this price... its a no-brainer.      There are lots of factors involved,  the benefit is that I know in the 20 years it really wasn't used much, but it makes no difference to me if it has 10 prints or 10 billion prints on it, if it turns and moves like it should and it prints, then the fact it is that particular press and for that price is why I will just grab it and if I need to purchase some screws or bolts or parts, I will work on when I get it... I'm sure the add-on 4 heads to make it a 10-color will cost more than what I'm paying for the press, but in the end it will cost a lot less than a brand new one.

Are you talking about an automatic or manual, what kind of press is it?

[ffokazak]

Any used machine will need parts. Any machine will need parts eventually, even if brand new. The question is do you fix your machines yourself. A warranty to me doesn't mean as much because there are no local techs I trust, and I'm not flying someone out from Chicago when I can get the parts next day and fix it myself.  If you can't even change the oil on your 86 Tercel, then maybe brand new machines are the best choice.

I think another factor will be who makes the press...

I would rather need to call M&R to get parts than to call Printex...

I bought a used CHIIID and have just over 1/2 a million prints since November and we haven't needed a single replacement part. For us it was an amazing purchase. I have some spare parts on hand, and should/when the need arrises Ill have her back up and running in no time.

[Rockers]

Sometimes there are other factors involved....

At the shop I'm working, they have a Chameleon sitting in the shed out back, which they purchased probably 20 years ago, brand new for something like 13k... its a 6-color, no air clamps and doesn't have the top deck for the additional 4 screens....   

I've set up a plan to give them $100 a week so I can get that press ASAP... they are willing to sell it for only 2k.... I should have it around December.   

Now to be fair, it will probably cost me another 2k to get the additional 4 heads and any parts I may need etc....

But the point is I don't care what condition the thing is in, that is an insane deal on a used chameleon, and I have wanted one for a while.

Proposal from M&R on a brand new 14-color with air-clamps was 25k.... but I don't have the business yet to be able to make that kind of purchase in addition to all the other equipment I need getting started, and it is best to start small - for example you only need a screen and a flat surface to actually print,  but  to actually get into some profitable multi-color work, I've had my eyes on the chameleon for a while, and running into this used one just sitting there and at this price... its a no-brainer.      There are lots of factors involved,  the benefit is that I know in the 20 years it really wasn't used much, but it makes no difference to me if it has 10 prints or 10 billion prints on it, if it turns and moves like it should and it prints, then the fact it is that particular press and for that price is why I will just grab it and if I need to purchase some screws or bolts or parts, I will work on when I get it... I'm sure the add-on 4 heads to make it a 10-color will cost more than what I'm paying for the press, but in the end it will cost a lot less than a brand new one.

Are you talking about an automatic or manual, what kind of press is it?

Are you sure it`s a Chameleon you are going to buy? Chameleon is a manual press not an auto. We bought a new Chameleon 11 years ago and it was maybe around US$7000 if I remember that right. 6 color press no air clamps.

[blue moon]

Sometimes there are other factors involved....

At the shop I'm working, they have a Chameleon sitting in the shed out back, which they purchased probably 20 years ago, brand new for something like 13k... its a 6-color, no air clamps and doesn't have the top deck for the additional 4 screens....   

I've set up a plan to give them $100 a week so I can get that press ASAP... they are willing to sell it for only 2k.... I should have it around December.   

Now to be fair, it will probably cost me another 2k to get the additional 4 heads and any parts I may need etc....

But the point is I don't care what condition the thing is in, that is an insane deal on a used chameleon, and I have wanted one for a while.

Proposal from M&R on a brand new 14-color with air-clamps was 25k.... but I don't have the business yet to be able to make that kind of purchase in addition to all the other equipment I need getting started, and it is best to start small - for example you only need a screen and a flat surface to actually print,  but  to actually get into some profitable multi-color work, I've had my eyes on the chameleon for a while, and running into this used one just sitting there and at this price... its a no-brainer.      There are lots of factors involved,  the benefit is that I know in the 20 years it really wasn't used much, but it makes no difference to me if it has 10 prints or 10 billion prints on it, if it turns and moves like it should and it prints, then the fact it is that particular press and for that price is why I will just grab it and if I need to purchase some screws or bolts or parts, I will work on when I get it... I'm sure the add-on 4 heads to make it a 10-color will cost more than what I'm paying for the press, but in the end it will cost a lot less than a brand new one.

Are you talking about an automatic or manual, what kind of press is it?

there is a difference between getting started and optimizing a running organization. The press you are looking at is great deal to get going because you will have more time between the jobs and will be able to wrench on it yourself. For me, changing fuses or resetting a breaker is a pain and I don't want to waste my time doing it. Or for that matter, if the press ops are having to do it, they are not printing (and thus not making you money). That is the reason why I would not buy a press with more than 1.5M impressions. It is possibly still a good press, but I don't want to worry about it and don't want to be replacing the maintenance parts when we could be printing. Your priorities change with time and the low hanging fruit is becoming higher and higher off the ground. . .

pierre

p.s. I started with a rototex and American dryer just few years ago. Paid $2.5K for the set with a flash unit and then spent a week repluming and rewiring everything.