Author Topic: Tension:How low can you go?  (Read 2804 times)

Offline abchung

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Tension:How low can you go?
« on: July 02, 2016, 08:27:34 PM »
I am trying to prolong my S-mesh life.
In the beginning I tensioned them up to 28N but it keeps on tearing after several runs.
At 22N. I still get acceptable quality, but I am thinking of going down to 18N to save a few bucks.
What is your workable tension before you start noticing a quality change?

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Offline jsheridan

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Re: Tension:How low can you go?
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2016, 08:56:45 PM »
roller frames?

panels or bolt mesh
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Offline Frog

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Re: Tension:How low can you go?
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2016, 09:03:15 PM »
Recommended maximum tensions vary with each mesh count, so I'm sure that minimum tensions will vary similarly.
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Offline brandon

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Re: Tension:How low can you go?
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2016, 09:51:28 PM »
Plastisol or water base? Off contact or on contact? Auto or manual?

Offline Dottonedan

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Re: Tension:How low can you go?
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2016, 11:08:03 PM »
I'm thinkibg you may want to look at your process for tensioning and  re tensioning. Something along the way must be causing your mesh to bust outside if just high tension.  I've heard of many people being higher than what you noted without  popping on a regular basis.i donno much about how to best get there myself.
Artist & high end separator, Owner of The Vinyl Hub, Owner of Dot-Tone-Designs, Past M&R Digital tech installer for I-Image machines. Over 35 yrs in the apparel industry. e-mail art@designsbydottone.com

Offline abchung

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Re: Tension:How low can you go?
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2016, 01:45:08 AM »
Thanks for the replies.
All rollers MZX.
-Stretched manually.
-Bolt Mesh.
-Manual printer.
-Squeegees are all sharpened by a squeegee sharpener.

Plastisol:
Color: Use to use 305 but after forum suggestions we started to use 230-S and we are trying to use as little pressure as possible.
White Ink: 160-S. we notice that we can't print this with tension lower than 20N....below this and our image edge is not sharp.
I'm thinkibg you may want to look at your process for tensioning and  re tensioning. Something along the way must be causing your mesh to bust outside if just high tension.  I've heard of many people being higher than what you noted without  popping on a regular basis.i donno much about how to best get there myself.
I started to tension in slowly, which gives better mesh life.
1. Tension long side to 10 N.
2. Tension short side to 10N.
3. Relax long side then up to 15N.
4. Relax short side and then up to 15N...
process up to 20N.... Don't ask me how long it takes.  :-[

If others can print with tensions lower than 20N and still maintain good quality, then I might be doing something wrong.




Offline jsheridan

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Re: Tension:How low can you go?
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2016, 10:54:55 AM »
Fresh cup of coffee so the brain is starting to tingle. Let's see if I can get this into words.

Without a doubt your problems are due to the mesh not being loaded square and improper corner softening. This places different loads across the mesh and what may be 22n here is 30n there causing a failure.

first thing is to stage your roller tubes, see those hash marks on the corners, those are your guide marks for where to roll to later in the process. Once you get to know your mesh and how it rolls, where you stage the tubes will depend on mesh counts. low mesh will stage at 5 or 6 as it won't roll much vs high mesh will roll father and need to be staged at 1 or 2.

Stage the tubes so the top of the locking channel is at the 3rd hash from the inside, do this for all 4 tubes, looks like this.


Preparing the mesh panel. It's best to work with a 2-3" of mesh overhang. A 60" bolt will yield two panels at 29" x 37" we don't cut the mesh with scissors, nick the edge and rip the mesh by hand. this ensures you get a straight 'cut' as the tear will follow a single thread. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT to getting a clean edge.

measure down 37" and rip it from the bolt. You'll need to trim the manufactured heat knife edge, fold the mesh in half, trim 1" from the edges, rip em off then rip at the center and you have 2 panels 29 x 37

lay this panel over the frame and square it up best you can.

Inserting the Alignment clips.
We have to be careful and compress the clips and not drag them or let them nick the mesh while we prepare the channel for loading the locking strip. long tubes require 3 clips, short tube 2 clips. Insert clip 1 about 2ish inches from the tube end , then holding that clip, with your other hand pull gently on the mesh at the other end making sure you have an even amount of overhang and insert a clip at  roller end. Place clip #3 in the center.



Now we have to measure the distance from the edge of the mesh to the clip in the channel. using your locking strip, place the pointy end at the edge of the clip and lightly pulling on the mesh edge, use your thumbnail to mark the location on the strip where the mesh edge lands


Keeping your thumbnail on the strip do this for the middle clip. go back to the first, remeasure, back to #2 then onto #3.. repeat until all 3 clips are EXACTLY THE SAME.. this is your foundation for a square panel so GET IT RIGHT!

Insert your locking strip until it hits the first clip, remove the clip and move to #2 then onto #3. Double check the measure distance and if needed, go back to the clip step, re-measure and re-insert the locking strip.

move to the other long roller and repeat the clip inserting steps starting with the #2 clip in the center. Before you place clip 1 and 3, check the short tube ends for mesh overhang, make sure it's even as this is where people get a crooked panel. We don't want the panel to tight in the frame at this point so wiggle #2 and  leave just a little bit of slack across the panel so the locking strip is easy to insert, insert clips 1 and 3 then measure the same as above. Before inserting the locking strip, check short tube overhang so it's even.  If you have to force the strip into the channel, back off #2 a little and repeat measure. Once the strip is inserted, double check the overhang on the short tubes and adjust by pulling on the mesh at the short ends to get them even.

Move to short tube end, should be square, place the clips, measure and insert locking strip.

move to last short tube, clip, measure, strip and you're done.

CORNER SOFTENING

The 2nd reason most frames pop is the corners didn't get softened enough. this is a reference to where the softness should be, the red line is a failure zone. If the corner is pulled beyond that zone, it'll pop. Keep it within the black and red and you're good. I like to keep my corners really tight, helps with coating, CTS machines and that buzzy flap in reclaim.


Measure your corner softener tool to same size as the diagonal of the corner of the frame. use that to measure in from the corner, place a clip there, do the same on the other side. using a sharpie, run it along the channel edge to the clip. now soften the corner down to the table surface. You'll see the marker line angle down from the clip and not any farther. repeat on each corner.



ROLLING THE TUBES
This is where those hash marks come into play again and where my techniques differ from others. At this point i don't need a meter and can simply use the hash marks as a reference of where to turn the rollers. We staged the rollers at the top of the channel, now we roll the tubes to the bottom of the channel and align it's edge with the hash marks.

For the initial tension with S-mesh i move all rollers to hash mark #2 and lock the bolts. Trim all excess mesh and tape em up. Conventional mesh or other brands will go to hash 3 or 4 depending on tension range.

This results in a tension from 22 to 28 and is ready for production. No relaxation needed, simply degrease and put into production. Same goes for conventional mesh, i wack it and lock it and send to production. I have not let mesh relax during initial tension in years now and have the exact same results as staged tension with half the time and effort.

When it comes back, roll 1 short tube 1 hash and back into production.

2nd time around, long tube 1 hash and this should keep the frame good for some time. Double check tension and if needed move another hash.

FINAL THOUGHTS

I've been stretching roller frames since 1991 and have stretched 10's of thousands of frames both manually and with a roller master table. I've used every mesh brand including cheap china filtration mesh to 60 newton high tension mesh printing 85 line tonal work at 800+ impressions per hour. I've seen it all and tried every technique including skewed loading to create a diamond shape opening. the magic number for tension is 25 newtons as that is the minimum force required to offset the deflection forces of the flood bar filling the stencil, that is what tension is all about, creating a printing plate for the flood and a spring board for the squeegee.  keep em all around that range and things just work. Go up to 30 and it's good.. 40 is the next sweet spot and after that is 60.

There you go, hope that helped. Feel free to call me if you need some hands on training and or want to fly me out for training.







« Last Edit: July 03, 2016, 12:41:32 PM by jsheridan »
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Offline Rockers

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Re: Tension:How low can you go?
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2016, 09:02:14 PM »
Great advise.
just not sure if I would tension any S-mesh higher then 35N. Ideally I would try to keep it at 30N max. The difference in printing with an 25N 150-S and a comparable Newman mesh at 50N is still pretty noticeable. At least for us. We got much better results with the S-mesh even though it`s just at half the tension of the Newman mesh.

Offline abchung

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Re: Tension:How low can you go?
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2016, 10:16:38 PM »
Thanks heaps. I will refine my stretching.Again thank you

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Offline jsheridan

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Re: Tension:How low can you go?
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2016, 10:18:51 PM »
Follow the s-mesh chart for your thread, i don't think any of them go above 28.

The reference to 30n is for conventional and a good place to be for volume shops who don't perform routine maintenance.

40 and up if for serious players who dedicate time to their screens.

60n is for masters as the handling requirements and press tolerances are beyond the scope of 99.1% of the printers out there.
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Offline Dottonedan

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Re: Tension:How low can you go?
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2016, 10:52:38 PM »
John,

Thanks for the in depth post.  What are you referring to for an example when trying to stay in the 40 n range and dedicating time?  Like what needs to be done?
Artist & high end separator, Owner of The Vinyl Hub, Owner of Dot-Tone-Designs, Past M&R Digital tech installer for I-Image machines. Over 35 yrs in the apparel industry. e-mail art@designsbydottone.com

Offline jsheridan

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Re: Tension:How low can you go?
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2016, 12:31:17 PM »
40n+ is a really good level in that all of the newman mesh up to the 300 can handle 40n. when every screen in the house sits at 40, the magic really starts to happen. You can max out flood/print speeds, lower your OC and hold wicked tolerance of your ink deposit through the use of eom control.

The biggest concern at tension's above 40 are how you handle the screens. At this level they become delicate and a single nick or ding will cause a failure.
Manually getting to this tension requires staging while a roller master will get to that level with and on/off/on with a 5 minute rest before locking the bolts.

Coating is a breeze as the screen is now a plate and won't deflect from the viscosity of the emulsion or that cold super poly white you just plopped in the screen in a january morning to print some nasty 60/40 sweatshirts.


Edge tape protection is a must, our yellow, gorilla or polyken has that covered.

Just about everyone leans screens up against a wall, 10-15 deep. Can't do that anymore. It's best to take the approach where a screen is always either horizontal as in a cart, in a rack, in a press or vertical in a drip tank, in the wash tank. they can be stacked on top of each other like how Greg K does his cleaning cycles.

Screen racks with the aluminum L channel require care when sliding them in or covering the edge with plastic and or composite wood products. A better rack system is where you use pins that angle down so the very edge of the frame rests on the pin vs sitting in a rack, this helps with drying post rinse as well.


Dip tanks will require a guide or framework to keep them from hitting each other on the way in/out of the tank.  Can't tell you how many i've popped this way.

Your press is going to have to be tight and parallel, off contact set to 0.069 (US Quarter) or less.

Inspect every flood bar pre run and sand them down and buff the edges, a ding here is like a razor blade going down the mesh.
Squeegees require well rounded and polished corners or the sharp edge with wear down the mesh and cause a failure.

60n requires a longer screen making process as staging and work hardening are required to get the best benefit from the mesh.
Only 7 counts of mesh can handle 60 or higher so this is really great for underbase (128, 166 or 205) screens and lower counts doing specialty or HD (40, 58, 88 or 115)

If you've never seen a base from a 166 at 60n maxed out print speeds.. it's a site to see. incredible ink transfer that won't need a roller screen.

A roller master is required as manual tensioning to this point is very time consuming and requires multiple staging and retensioning before it's stable. It can take days if you don't have a dedicated screen person.

On the roller master you can have this frame ready in about 30-60ish minutes and it will only require a few re-tensions before stable. It's not recommend to print these frames for any kind of tolerance work on the first 2 runs as the loss in tension over the run can cause a shift in registration

We have to have the tightest press on the block and bring that OC down some. Preferred use of the constant force squeegees and precise squeegee flood adjustments will get the best print possible.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2016, 12:34:34 PM by jsheridan »
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