Seps/printing differences when using reactive dye.

[srabadan]

Having a problem with a style being produced overseas, printing with reactive dye.

Don't know much about printing with dye but there seem to be issues holding dots/detail. I suspect due to the viscosity of the product.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sj32dssyg5sef3h/strike-off.png?dl=0

The approved strike off is on the top with the figure blocked out (It's not released yet I have to do that). The issue is with the spacey artwork in the background. Production factory tells me they need to add a screen to print the fine details. The sample maker (print on top) seems to have done just fine with the two screens we gave him. One screen has a dark blue, one a lighter blue. the lighter blue screen has a mix of heavy color and fine details.

Anyone with sep or print experience with dyes, are there limits to what I can do with one screen that are different then with a water based ink?

Thanks as always.

[Colin]

I would go back to your sample maker: Who I assume used the same dyes?  And ask them for the screen specs - if they will give them to you.  Then compare them to your production house.  Looks to me like your production house is not paying attention when making screens or prepping inks.

The production sample shirt:  Are you using different colors than what was used in the approved strike off?   

[srabadan]

Have a callout to the sample maker. Will know tomorrow. Lots of times they will just 'fix' things and not detail their work.

When work gets to the production factory things start exploding and it takes us a little time to figure out why.

Thanks for the reply

[srabadan]

So it turns out the sample maker sized up the job and determined that it wouldn't work as a reactive dye print and took it upon themselves to make the change to a water based ink. This wasn't reported back.

Thanks for the help!

[Frog]

I think that it goes without saying, that you guys need to establish some  rules!
I'd say communication and a request for approval of changes will rank close to the top.

[tonypep]

Its probably necessary for some reason, but using a sample house as a separate production facility other than the facility doing the production is frought with potential problems regardless of ink or dye

[srabadan]

The process definitely has it's issues. We use the sample room people primarily to create pieces that sales can use to sell the lines. Production is scheduled at the same time in completely different countries, sometimes before manufacturing issues present themselves.

Sample makers make samples and only worry about making the few pieces that they are ordered to make. Even if that means reworking everything they have to get those pieces done. I was just assigned the task of making the parts of this whole big machine work a little better together. Looks like it's going to be fun.

[Colin]

Sounds like sampling needs to be able to mirror production.....  Big Job!

[srabadan]

Been waiting for days to see if the overseas printer/art dept can edit the art the way they need to to get this done.

DAYS...

I would have done it myself but the way I already did it, printed great when our people did it. I have no idea how to sep it for these guys.

[tonypep]

Again, regardless of ink/dye, samples produced outside of production facilities are probably the most challenging endeavors. Too many nuances and interdependent variables ultimately will lead to varying results. Indeed large facilities that house sample departments within their own facilities face this trouble. Oats, Harlequin, Winterland, Marc Eckos facility, as well as countless of offshore facilities had or have had to deal with this constantly. These days we can at least rule out separation issues as files can simply sent via drop box etc. Still, many strike off by hand and sample printers are notorious "cheaters"; using techinques often not replicatable via automation, and often neglect or omit proper documentation. Interesting subject but not applicable for most so I will leave it at that however; we have been approached more than once to provide this service and will continue to decline, as the lid to that Pandoras Box can stay nailed shut as far as I am concerned.

[Colin]

Is the production facility owned by the same company?

Either way, it sounds like a field trip may be needed in order to facilitate better communication.  Also so that you can have a firm understanding of their processes.... and maybe how they do their seps so you can be ahead of the game.

[Dottonedan]

Interesting. I did this sample and approval thing with Disney and other countries. Very long process at that time with about a 5 month process between sample and approval. Back then (just 7 years ago) and more, just getting a revised art file to them was a challenge. Most of the shops (we) worked within in China were on dial up so when downloading a file, it would either take 8 hrs our not go through at all due to a break in downloading. Ugh.

One time, the printer did not have a computer I guess, (their excuse) so they redrew out very complex art from a color print call out sheet and sent that back 3 wks later as a sample. Ugh.

I thought about being a sample department for companies that deal with this stuff and being a liaison between the two. It can be done but yea, is a challenge for sure.

[tonypep]

Brings me back to the early days of Nike when, each season, you would get a "kit" of films, printed samples, and BOMs.........almost none of them ever matched up. Many phone calls (no e-mail back then) and a lot of back and forth. Approvals took weeks. Or at OATS; when we would occaisionally help out Winterland and after days of not matching their sample, we discovered that they used a tan underbase as they only had 8 color ovals at the time.
BTW anyone know what TOP stands for and why?

[Dottonedan]

TOP as it pertains to what?  I'll take a stab at it.

TOP rolling papers? (not that I use those).
TOP white?

[tonypep]

TOP=Top Of Production. Actual sample from beginning of run. It is a more accurate example of what is being run in production after dot gain etc. Some high end fashion lines require this to be done hourly to ensure consistency of product. At Fortune we did this for Disney however they had full time staff on site so they were rolled back into production