Tension meter?

[bimmridder]

I actually have two in my shop. One we use to check every screen as it goes through. Also using it for making new screens.  My other one is locked away so I can pull it out if the other one is damaged or needs to go back for recalibration. The point is we use it religiously every day.

[Printficient]

Yes buy it. It's an invaluable tool for pre-press operations.

I've seen many times the tension on a static isn't even enough to get the meter to read it.. 17-19 is pretty high.. most static's end up around the 10-14
range.

We put a meter on a BRAND NEW static at the Ft Worth show.. for a 110 it read 16n..

High tension is anything over 40n.

The optimum range for decent printing is in the 25n to 35n range.

I'll give you 25n.  The one glaring omission to this discussion has always been the capability of ones equipment to hold the parameters needed to benefit from anything higher.  All I am saying is that make sure the equipment you have can hold the parameters before you go gung-ho on "high" tension.
I have always said, that with the exception of off the wall HD printing, that I could print any award winning print on a Precision oval with wood screens with the mesh attached with staples.

[Evo]

I have always said, that with the exception of off the wall HD printing, that I could print any award winning print on a Precision oval with wood screens with the mesh attached with staples.

This is true. However, you could print many more per hour, with better registration over the life of the screens, faster setups and less ink consumption leading to higher profits.

Just sayin...

[Printficient]

I have always said, that with the exception of off the wall HD printing, that I could print any award winning print on a Precision oval with wood screens with the mesh attached with staples.

This is true. However, you could print many more per hour, with better registration over the life of the screens, faster setups and less ink consumption leading to higher profits.

Just sayin...

I don't know ...them thar ovals fly... 

[alan802]

Why would you be jumping on my case with that question?  That's a very hard question to answer but I would consider high tension to be contingent on the mesh specs and the maximum tension level that the manufacturer calls for.  For example, a murakami smartmesh S thread would be "high" in the 25-28 newton level, low at 15 newtons and I wouldn't consider using it.

I've heard it a million times and I actually believe it when people say they can print great things with static aluminums that are 15-20 newtons, we've done it as well, but my argument will always be this:  Imagine if you can do that quality of work with those screens, how much faster, cheaper and less problems could you have done it with "properly" high tensioned screens?  High tension doesn't necessarily mean newman rollers or retensionable, but I've yet to see a static frame with mesh in it that I would consider high tension.

[alan802]

Yes buy it. It's an invaluable tool for pre-press operations.

I've seen many times the tension on a static isn't even enough to get the meter to read it.. 17-19 is pretty high.. most static's end up around the 10-14
range.

We put a meter on a BRAND NEW static at the Ft Worth show.. for a 110 it read 16n..

High tension is anything over 40n.

The optimum range for decent printing is in the 25n to 35n range.

I'll give you 25n.  The one glaring omission to this discussion has always been the capability of ones equipment to hold the parameters needed to benefit from anything higher.  All I am saying is that make sure the equipment you have can hold the parameters before you go gung-ho on "high" tension.
I have always said, that with the exception of off the wall HD printing, that I could print any award winning print on a Precision oval with wood screens with the mesh attached with staples.

I'd love to see that print.  I don't know if you've really seen many award winning prints lately Sonny, because I don't think you'd win even honorable mention with something you printed with those tools, much less an award. 

[Evo]

I have always said, that with the exception of off the wall HD printing, that I could print any award winning print on a Precision oval with wood screens with the mesh attached with staples.

This is true. However, you could print many more per hour, with better registration over the life of the screens, faster setups and less ink consumption leading to higher profits.

Just sayin...

I don't know ...them thar ovals fly... 

Speed of the press itself has nothing to do with it.

[Evo]

I approach my screen maintenance the same way I used to approach bicycle wheels when I was a shop mechanic.

A wheel has very few components. Hub, rim, spokes. The overall strength, durability and performance of the wheel is a balance of the quality of the components and the care in assembly and tuning.

A wheel performs best when maintained at it's highest maximum tension. That is, the tension that all of the combined components can handle without material failure. Typically, this is mostly dependent on rim strength.

When a wheel is correctly tuned at optimum tension, it resists the compression forces that are placed upon it. It is pre-stressed against the compression. This means less cyclic fatigue and failure. (note: a bike wheel with low tension does not ride better, and spoke failure due to fatigue will happen much faster....)


I treat my roller frames the same way. I tension them repeatedly till they are at or close to the highest tension that the mesh will hold and maintain. Like the spokes of a wheel, work hardening, re-tensioning and tuning to find the best tension will pull the mesh to it's max elongation. This will also pull the open areas to their max. I can print with very low off contact and I use much less ink, the coverage is better, the prints are sharper and I am less tired at the end of the day. (I print manually only)

I occasionally throw a static frame in the mix when I'm in a pinch and every time I regret it.

Used Newmans are cheap and they last for fricken ever. Mine look like they were used in the first gulf war and they hold tension and stay perfectly flat. On average they've cost me maybe $10-$15 each over statics.

So to the original question about the meter, yes buy it. Use it. Love it.

[jsheridan]

I have always said, that with the exception of off the wall HD printing, that I could print any award winning print on a Precision oval with wood screens with the mesh attached with staples.

And I can cook a steak with a blowtorch and a pair of tongs.. 


The only true high tension mesh is the Newman Roller Mesh.

S threads can't be classified as high tension and I'm starting to see they really aren't the cats meow for anything other than manual printing. They float around the 20-25 range and that's not enough tension to stop mesh deflection from both coating and printing. You have to get above 35n to get to the the point where the mesh stops deflecting and printing forces take on a whole new set of parameters.

Test this yourself. Buy yourself a 166 newman roller panel or bolt mesh and take it to it's max tension level of 63 newtons.. screw that, just goto 50n.

You just made a printing plate.. 50n equals 7200 lbs per sq inch!! The screen is so flat you won't be able to get it to bend around your warped wooden pallets, and if your press is so much as 3 thousands out of plane.. it won't print either.

The closer we get to a plate, the easier our printing becomes. Why do you think offset holds incredible detail.. They use a plate!
 
Like my sig says.. step it up

[Printficient]

Yes buy it. It's an invaluable tool for pre-press operations.

I've seen many times the tension on a static isn't even enough to get the meter to read it.. 17-19 is pretty high.. most static's end up around the 10-14
range.

We put a meter on a BRAND NEW static at the Ft Worth show.. for a 110 it read 16n..

High tension is anything over 40n.

The optimum range for decent printing is in the 25n to 35n range.

I'll give you 25n.  The one glaring omission to this discussion has always been the capability of ones equipment to hold the parameters needed to benefit from anything higher.  All I am saying is that make sure the equipment you have can hold the parameters before you go gung-ho on "high" tension.
I have always said, that with the exception of off the wall HD printing, that I could print any award winning print on a Precision oval with wood screens with the mesh attached with staples.

I'd love to see that print.  I don't know if you've really seen many award winning prints lately Sonny, because I don't think you'd win even honorable mention with something you printed with those tools, much less an award.

I have seen many award winning prints.  The one common denominator with any award winner is great art and great seps.  the actual technique of printing is minor compared to great art and seps.  Wasn't getting on your case hence the phrase I not to jump.  I meant that.  My point is that too much is made about one small part of the process.  Are you going to SGIA?

[Printficient]

I have always said, that with the exception of off the wall HD printing, that I could print any award winning print on a Precision oval with wood screens with the mesh attached with staples.

And I can cook a steak with a blowtorch and a pair of tongs.. 

or toast with a branding iron

[alan802]

It's not looking good for me going to SGIA.  We have simply too much work to be done for me to take a day or two off.  We are so busy that I'm actually having to help the guys shoot screens, setup, teardown, box up and ship.

I love debating the tension topic.  I disagree with you Sonny in that it's just another variable.  I think it's one of the top 5.  I have been thinking about the most important variables in screen printing and I go back and forth between about 10 different ones that I think are the most important 5, so it's always changing.

I "somewhat" disagree with John on the S thread mesh.  I may hype it up but I do understand it isn't perfect and my attitude towards it may sound like I think it's the best thing since sliced bread which it's not.  It does outperform the sefar and saati mesh we have hands down, in all categories except ink deposit thickness.  It does lay down a more opaque deposit of ink however, with virtually no print pressure it seems.  Sometimes I can print with such little pressure that the choppers don't want to go up and down.  I'd like to mention that I like the newman roller mesh almost as much as the murakami.  I do see your point about the mesh deflection, but I haven't noticed it on our screens but we've only got a handful of 110/71 and 150/48 and they are at 28 newtons.  If they could make the S thread withstand 35-40 newtons I do think it would be perfect, and the cat's meow, meow what I mean?

[jsheridan]

It does outperform the sefar and saati mesh we have hands down, in all categories except ink deposit thickness. 

That's where i was going with it. It's good mesh, has great properties but it's lack of ink deposit will frustrate anyone other than an experienced user who understands thick stencil use. S thread has it's place in the screen room but isn't the end all go to daily mesh that it could be, and if they increase the threads, it ceases to be what it is. An easy mesh to push a thick opaque or white ink through.

[alan802]

I think one reason why we haven't had much issue with the ink deposit is because our 150/48 have about a 50 micron eom.  I agree that anyone that's just coating them with a 1/1 technique will get frustrated and might have to double stroke.

[Denis Kolar]

Just a quick follow up. I have received my meter and I checked few screens.
110 wooden is @ 19 newtons
155 aluminum is @ 21 newtons
230 aluminum is @ 15 newtons