LED Bulbs Already Failing

[markdhl]

Bottom line is that the olec olite metal halide light source will give a much higher quality than the starlight and we are happy to prove it.  we have compared side by side at screen shops.  We and our customers have seen the difference. 

Mark
Douthitt Corporation

[Colin]

Mark:

My understanding is once you are at or above a 5k metal halide bulb, then you start to get better imaging/stencil development/stencil durability than LED. 

What are you doing to compare the two different units that gives you better screens?  What units did you compare?

You cant just drop a comment like that and not give details


Farmer:  The current comments on the LED bulbs are about them dying. As for LED being used to expose film, no one here who has one has made any complaints...

[Frog]

Mark:

My understanding is once you are at or above a 5k metal halide bulb, then you start to get better imaging/stencil development/stencil durability than LED. 

What are you doing to compare the two different units that gives you better screens?  What units did you compare?

You cant just drop a comment like that and not give details


Farmer:  The current comments on the LED bulbs are about them dying. As for LED being used to expose film, no one here who has one has made any complaints...

At least not in this thread

[GraphicDisorder]

This thread is about LEDs dying on a Vastex basically.  This may not be the thread to start getting this far off topic. I would love to see your info though Mark, in a new thread would make most sense.

[Colin]

Andy:

Again, prob best in a new thread, but I don't remember reading about issues.  Do you remember something I don't?

[Frog]

Andy:

Again, prob best in a new thread, but I don't remember reading about issues.  Do you remember something I don't?

Some time back, we had discussions of what emulsions were and were not working with certain units. That's where the proprietary nature of exact wavelength output of different LED's was broached.

[Frog]

Here's a huge thread from last year that I think touched on some emulsion compatibility/exposure issues.

[screenprintguy]

All due respect, Danny Grunniger's printing is beating the competition and his screens are imaged with an M&R STE, which has a small strip of led's. So I don't see too much argument past that. If a starlight has even more juice, ummmmm, correct me if I'm wrong buuuut, wouldn't that be even more accuracy. The guys I know with Starlights do amazing work, won't have to buy bulbs and, none of them seem to be lacking detail. What am I missing?

[GraphicDisorder]

All due respect, Danny Grunniger's printing is beating the competition and his screens are imaged with an M&R STE, which has a small strip of led's. So I don't see too much argument past that. If a starlight has even more juice, ummmmm, correct me if I'm wrong buuuut, wouldn't that be even more accuracy. The guys I know with Starlights do amazing work, won't have to buy bulbs and, none of them seem to be lacking detail. What am I missing?

Drops the mic.... 

[Orion]

All due respect, Danny Grunniger's printing is beating the competition and his screens are imaged with an M&R STE, which has a small strip of led's. So I don't see too much argument past that. If a starlight has even more juice, ummmmm, correct me if I'm wrong buuuut, wouldn't that be even more accuracy. The guys I know with Starlights do amazing work, won't have to buy bulbs and, none of them seem to be lacking detail. What am I missing?

Maybe it is the use of of CTS or good dmax films which allow for longer and more complete exposure of the emulsion.  Does LEd work, yes, but why do we see manufacturers formulating emulsion specifically for LED light. My belief is a multi-spectral light source makes for optimal exposure no matter the emulsion type.

[UnderPressureSP]

We run water base ink and only water base ink.  We use a 6k nuarc and love it since some of our screens are 47x53 its perfect.  I will roll the dice and take failure any day.  Today the light unit reader was hit and i exposed my 230 mesh for a extra 3 mins before I realize what happen.   Note our film is black black and the screen was still fine for the detail.  Its the larger runs of 10k plus and more that matter.  The diazo needs to be cooked on these screens.  We call it baking.  This is when single light source wins and good emulsion.  I agree led is more reliable for not breaking but alan seems to disprove this theory but that is because I believe he got a old edition.  I would beg Vastex to send you new lights  or sell it get a vacuum table and 6k or higher for 1k to 2k.  If others are have good luck on it than I think its the lights or some other hardware.   Also there should be a serial number to trace what version it was and what changed...  Good luck. 

[ZooCity]

Bottom line is that the olec olite metal halide light source will give a much higher quality than the starlight and we are happy to prove it.  we have compared side by side at screen shops.  We and our customers have seen the difference. 

Mark
Douthitt Corporation

On/off topic I know but I concur.  For our purposes printing on textiles a high quality led like the starlight is acceptable,  but not equal to 5k mh in either speed,  resolution, heat on the glass or strength of exposure.  If I had the space and electrical available we would still be on mh.  It's all shop dependent on which is best fit. 

The issues with the vastex units sound like a possible bad set of leds. If they are field replaceable, I'd recommend swapping them out to see if the issues can be repeated.  The other reason that one unit is performing well and another poorly could well be the way the emulsions are responding.  Ties into the above comments on spectral output and intensity therein. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[RonH]

I feel there are a couple of things that need to be brought into the conversation about comparing LED to MH as a light source for exposing screens.  Having worked with MH light sources since the 70's, I can tell you that not all MH lamps are equal.  There are MH lamps that are designed to light up a warehouse or a parking lot and others designed for exposing screen print emulsions, these should not be compared to each other.  I remember when NuArc introduced instant start MH technology to augment our shuttered MH units, and others said it was not a good idea and would not work well.  Thousands of instant start MH units are in shops across the world, and we also continued to mfg shuttered MH units as well.  There still remains the fact that there is a place for both types of units.

Just like the past where many have lumped all MH light sources into one category, the same is happening with LED exposure units.  There are a lot of differences between the different models and to lump them all into one category is wrong.  Like many things you can purchase, there are different types and qualities of LED's and there are different ways in which they can be powered, and positioned in an exposure unit.  We have many customers that have been using our Starlight units very successfully for almost any application you can think of.  In fact I have been travelling around the country doing live demos in shops where those owners can do their own tests by exposing their screens with their emulsions on our Starlight.

I think we all know the benefits of LED's from the standpoint of longevity, lower power usage, less heat output, and in many cases faster exposure.  I know that our LED units are working great in many shops, but we are not saying that it is the only way to go.  We still manufacture our MH units for those that prefer it or for feel it is a better fit for their application.

Ron Hopkins
NuArc Sales Mgr
M&R Sales and Service Co.
 

 

[screenprintguy]

I feel there are a couple of things that need to be brought into the conversation about comparing LED to MH as a light source for exposing screens.  Having worked with MH light sources since the 70's, I can tell you that not all MH lamps are equal.  There are MH lamps that are designed to light up a warehouse or a parking lot and others designed for exposing screen print emulsions, these should not be compared to each other.  I remember when NuArc introduced instant start MH technology to augment our shuttered MH units, and others said it was not a good idea and would not work well.  Thousands of instant start MH units are in shops across the world, and we also continued to mfg shuttered MH units as well.  There still remains the fact that there is a place for both types of units.

Just like the past where many have lumped all MH light sources into one category, the same is happening with LED exposure units.  There are a lot of differences between the different models and to lump them all into one category is wrong.  Like many things you can purchase, there are different types and qualities of LED's and there are different ways in which they can be powered, and positioned in an exposure unit.  We have many customers that have been using our Starlight units very successfully for almost any application you can think of.  In fact I have been travelling around the country doing live demos in shops where those owners can do their own tests by exposing their screens with their emulsions on our Starlight.

I think we all know the benefits of LED's from the standpoint of longevity, lower power usage, less heat output, and in many cases faster exposure.  I know that our LED units are working great in many shops, but we are not saying that it is the only way to go.  We still manufacture our MH units for those that prefer it or for feel it is a better fit for their application.

Ron Hopkins
NuArc Sales Mgr
M&R Sales and Service Co.

Looking forward to our Starlight demo with you tomorrow Ron! Have safe travels. I'll line up some awesome donuts if you are a fan 

[ZooCity]

I feel there are a couple of things that need to be brought into the conversation about comparing LED to MH as a light source for exposing screens.  Having worked with MH light sources since the 70's, I can tell you that not all MH lamps are equal.  There are MH lamps that are designed to light up a warehouse or a parking lot and others designed for exposing screen print emulsions, these should not be compared to each other.  I remember when NuArc introduced instant start MH technology to augment our shuttered MH units, and others said it was not a good idea and would not work well.  Thousands of instant start MH units are in shops across the world, and we also continued to mfg shuttered MH units as well.  There still remains the fact that there is a place for both types of units.

Just like the past where many have lumped all MH light sources into one category, the same is happening with LED exposure units.  There are a lot of differences between the different models and to lump them all into one category is wrong.  Like many things you can purchase, there are different types and qualities of LED's and there are different ways in which they can be powered, and positioned in an exposure unit.  We have many customers that have been using our Starlight units very successfully for almost any application you can think of.  In fact I have been travelling around the country doing live demos in shops where those owners can do their own tests by exposing their screens with their emulsions on our Starlight.

I think we all know the benefits of LED's from the standpoint of longevity, lower power usage, less heat output, and in many cases faster exposure.  I know that our LED units are working great in many shops, but we are not saying that it is the only way to go.  We still manufacture our MH units for those that prefer it or for feel it is a better fit for their application.

Ron Hopkins
NuArc Sales Mgr
M&R Sales and Service Co.

Well said Ron.  I agree, we're comparing apples to bananas here at times.   We sprung for the Olec bulbs when running 5kw MH for instance which makes are comparison much different than a shop running generic bulbs with less of the right metals and/or lower wattage.  Toss in reflectors, distance, glass and vac draw down and it goes on and on...