CTS VS Adding Auto

[shaneds]

I've read hours of past CTS threads and information and I'm looking for any insight from shops that have both CTS and multiple automatics that might help us in our near future purchase - We are looking at either adding in a CTS or a third automatic, if you were to choose one which would you? To explain a little bit of our current set up -

- We average making 60 Frames per day
- 2 Automatics - 14 C Challenger II - running 1 shift half the year and 1.5 shirts (only one machine runs another 8 hours) for the other half of the year.
- Set Up by registration marks, no pre reg currently (we own tri-locks but do not use them)
- Each press has a team of three people (loader, unloader and catcher) when a job is complete they tear down and set up the next job, all hands on deck for making changeover as quick as possible

My thoughts with a new press instead of CTS are -
- You have increased capacity of how many shirts per day can be printed - also a backup if a machine goes down temp
- We can employ one person to constantly set up between machines, when a crew is printing an order on machine 1, a person can set up machine 2. When machine 1 is complete they move to machine 2 and immediately begin printing. What I don't  know if one person can keep up with tear down and set up by themselves between three machines (2 always printing), especially on short run jobs (under 150 pcs) In theory you create 2 machines constantly printing with one persons added labor.


Thank you in advance to any information. 

[244]

I've read hours of past CTS threads and information and I'm looking for any insight from shops that have both CTS and multiple automatics that might help us in our near future purchase - We are looking at either adding in a CTS or a third automatic, if you were to choose one which would you? To explain a little bit of our current set up -

- We average making 60 Frames per day
- 2 Automatics - 14 C Challenger II - running 1 shift half the year and 1.5 shirts (only one machine runs another 8 hours) for the other half of the year.
- Set Up by registration marks, no pre reg currently (we own tri-locks but do not use them)
- Each press has a team of three people (loader, unloader and catcher) when a job is complete they tear down and set up the next job, all hands on deck for making changeover as quick as possible

My thoughts with a new press instead of CTS are -
- You have increased capacity of how many shirts per day can be printed - also a backup if a machine goes down temp
- We can employ one person to constantly set up between machines, when a crew is printing an order on machine 1, a person can set up machine 2. When machine 1 is complete they move to machine 2 and immediately begin printing. What I don't  know if one person can keep up with tear down and set up by themselves between three machines (2 always printing), especially on short run jobs (under 150 pcs) In theory you create 2 machines constantly printing with one persons added labor.


Thank you in advance to any information.

If the Challengers are in good shape and not really old I would strongly suggest CTS. Even with 60 screens a day you will see huge improvements AND you will use the Tri-Loc pallets.

[Colin]

How long does it take you during job changes? - Tear Down/Set up/Finished test print?

How fast can one guy tear down and set up a job?

How fast do you print your average run?

If one guy can keep up with getting presses ready between job runs, then get the auto.

If not, then look at the time difference between CTS and Tri-loc and manually setting up.

[GKitson]

Without question the CTS investment will be your best choice, screen making time will be drastically reduced as will your set-up times.

You will be able to run more jobs on each existing press with the same team, overhead and I suspect possible elimination of most of the OT/second shift you referenced.

CTS ROI is based primarily on all the things you can't put on a spread sheet.

[mk162]

Greg, technically you can put anything on a spreadsheet, but quantifying any of them is what's difficult.

CTS leaves the screen guy more time to do something else while screens are being imaged.  Since he's not actively lining up films he can work on exposing, rinsing, taping etc.  It also removes films from the art department so they can focus on other things that are more profitable.

You have 2 autos, I would say CTS would be your best bet.  Why not get more from what you have.

[GraphicDisorder]

CTS, after all another auto would cause more stress in the screen department.

[Croft]

USE the triloc,   on the days when we think well save a minute and just shoot the screens without the triloc like on our manuals . I watch the operator fiddling with setting up way longer

[dirkdiggler]

1st, USE THE TRILOC, no matter how experienced your guys are, CTS and triloc are FASTER!  No question about it!  If I started over again the first thing I would buy would be CTS!  Films and I quit! 

[jvanick]

Cts saves in ways you can't see right now.

Better acreens, far less (if any) pinholes...

You can chose to stop using registration marks (we did) on most jobs  ... makes for much faster setups as you don't have to tape them off.

No more finding a film in the screen room.



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[Printficient]

In answer to the speed of 1 person setting up fast enough.  You said average job was 150 pieces.  That should be no more than 15 minutes press time.  Can the person set up in 15 minutes or less?  I too vote for the CTS

[JBLUE]

1st, USE THE TRILOC, no matter how experienced your guys are, CTS and triloc are FASTER!  No question about it!  If I started over again the first thing I would buy would be CTS!  Films and I quit!

What he says. I would put money on the Triloc and CTS against anyone in the world that they can reg a job faster. Unless you let a moron use the Triloc. Even then with CTS it is fairly moron proof at that point. Yesterday we set up a coulpe of 5 colors and some easy 2 screen white on darks and they only touched one micro on one job. We still use films too and carriers. Once we have the room CTS is coming in.

[DannyGruninger]

DTS for sure.......Running 2 autos on films isn't bad but when your running 3 then 4, yeah dts is the only way to go imo.

[3Deep]

Even with one auto and having plenty of work with a two person shop CTS makes tons of since, it's like having a whole crew working making one monthly payment.  I find myself wearing to many hats during the busy season, so if I could set up in 5 minutes vs 10 to 30 minutes and be printing, I could move on to the next job and still deal with customers.  Only thing about CTS for a small shop like mine is price, but like I said if we where running job after job not even large jobs 36 pc to 72 pc jobs 6 or more per day I,m buying one.

[Sbrem]

I've noticed a couple of newer offerings under 20K, from Lawson and Spyder...

Steve

[alan802]

At 60 screens per day I'd say you need a 3rd auto and a crew to run it like you need a hole in your head.  CTS in your situation by a mile.  If you have a 14 color CH2 that is in good shape, I mean fully capable like it was when it was a year old then I would bet money that a good CTS machine, that Challenger and a good crew could come close to handling a 60-screens-per-day-production just by itself with very little need for the 2nd auto and absolutely no need for a 3rd auto.  Everyone knows we don't have a CTS machine but during our busiest times we were running one, 8-9 hour shift per day on one auto (in great shape, 10 color with 2 flash units) doing 40 screens per day with 2 images on each screen, using archaic film, modified triloc and a crew of 3 solid guys.  So when I see your scenario and from what you've told us I think my numbers are very accurate and my opinion has merit.  I'm not saying that every shop should be handling 60 screens per day with one auto but it is very possible to achieve that type of production under good circumstances. 

60 screens per day doesn't tell the whole story obviously but I think everyone gets my point...I hope.