Registration Systems

[ffokazak]

I agree with the above points. Any reg system is only as good as the humans working it.

I use a Tri Loc much like Alan's system.  No carrier sheets. We built an illuminated wall mounted system with a grid, that matches an illustrator template.

Overall the system is very accurate.... If I do it I can get within a few thousandths of an inch. 

My guys.... not so much.  They just don't seem to be able to get it as close. I will say that at the very worst, you are still very close. Images are straight, and an easy few turns of the micros and you are reg'ed.  Id rather they use the system than nothing at all, that is for sure.

 Not wanting to derail the conversation any more than it already is... I think that is the biggest benefit of a CTS.  Having a 12$ an hour employee perfectly align images on the screens on the first day....

[Wildcard]

Alan's modified reg system gets a lot of references on TSB; is there a link where I can see it and learn more?

[souviking]

Alan's modified reg system gets a lot of references on TSB; is there a link where I can see it and learn more?

yes please!

[Ryan]

everyone makes points valid to any system. I don't use carrier sheets and I AM THE HUMAN, so which means something isn't right or I should just sell my equipment and go do something else because I am obviously not very good at what I do.

On a side note, I think everyone wants to see Alan's set-up, but I'm guessing that isn't going to happen anytime soon.

[Shanarchy]

Ryan,

How far off are you? 1/16"? 1/4", 1/2"?

If you do 4 screens are they all off just as much? Or do any actually line up?

Does certain heads seem to be off more than others? Have you tried the same screen in different heads and if so are the results the same or does it get you closer?

more importantly, what is Roq telling you?

[Ryan]

on average around 1/16". but its never consistent in 1 direction. I might be a 1/16" off to the right on one head but an 1/32 off the opposite direction. for reference also its about 2mm/.079" out of register on average. yes its been less, but it has been more too. Reggie mark currently is .706mm/.028"/2 points  wide, so I am getting nearly 3 times the width of a reggie mark (thickness) out of register. Yes numbers are low for what some would consider within tolerances (i'm guessing there are those that think these numbers are more than acceptable, I have no idea), For me, they are not. I didn't spend several thousands of dollars on a system that can only get me that close. Maybe I have higher expectations than most. I'm sure no one here would by a ferrari and be happy that it always turns slightly to the left. Hell if these numbers are acceptable to people here, please feel free to call me out on it, tell me to stop whining and go back to work. There is a reason I posted this up so that I can get a true feel. Last auto i worked on was an early 90s gauntlet, so maybe my experience is lacking and these numbers are right in line with the presses that have come out in the last few years. I would hope not, but I am by no means an expert in this field.

For the those that are keeping score, SRoque and I are dealing with this currently, so before you start the support issue, it is being dealt with

[Shanarchy]

I'm not curious to where Thales tolerances sit with 1964 and anyone else using the same system.

And where it sits with tri loc users as well.

I ordered my PRU yesterday. I'll let you know when it comes in. You are more than welcome to come down and check it out so you can get a feel for what you're getting if you swap over. I'll also let you know how I find my tolerances to be.

I do agree that for all the thousands of dollars that people spend on pre-reg and the value in quick set up you would think there would be a throw it on and go option. Info throne CTS is going to help get the industry to that point.

Do you choke your artwork at all?

[Ryan]

i choke underbase, but everything else is butt registered. Right now i need to make a decision to which way I want to go because the plan is the week after ISS AC to do whatever it is I decide, rezero or replace and they will be shipping heads over with the press going to AC if that is the case. Yes its frustrating on my end because I have gotten the "you are well with in tolerances" speech as well as "there is something going on with your press". So I have heard both sides to the argument and of course without anyone else doing work on my press, I really don't have a fair comparison because what I do and what someone else does is not going to be the same. I have talked to a few people with Roqs and what they seem to get is a lot better than what I've been getting, so again is it the press? the reg system? Me?

I am leaning towards clamp heads because I think it will eliminate the "zero" issue....

[Racer Tees]

Alan's modified reg system gets a lot of references on TSB; is there a link where I can see it and learn more?

I save every pic I see of a good reg system for the day I build mine.  I actually have a friend that works in a machine shop pricing me one CNC cut very similar to this, but with round stops, all aluminum.

Here's some pics I saved of Alan's.

[Printficient]

Ryan, based on what you have said I would place my bets on the press being out of level/plumb.  Either the heads or platens.  Here's a thought.  Is every bolt tight?  You wouldn't believe how many presses I have seen with loose head bolts or platen bolts.

[Mr Tees!!]

...inspired by alans rig a coupla years ago, I asked 244 VEEEERY nicely if he would consider building me a "reversed/mirrored" tri-loc rig, and he obliged. Basically a stock triloc frameholder which would normally go into the exposure unit, but the spring plungers and stop-blocks are on the reverse side from one another.This allows the screen to be mounted in the rig upside down, and still use the same three-point side of the screen that the regidtration pallet uses on-press....pretty much exactly how Alan's works.
... I mounted this onto a board, which is mounted to the wall. I fabbed up a backlit riser out of some square steel and plexi from Lowe's.

...the riser has a set of registration marks which I use as a template. All my films have the same template, and I line the films up to that. For me, instead of a tri-loc pallet, I simply print the registration mark template on one of my pallets, and line all the screns up to that. gets me line up perfect most of the time, with minimal adjusting needed the rest of the time. Still, I would like to get my hands on a tri-loc pallet and test how close it gets at some point. I cant imagine why it wouldnt work.

...I asked Rich/244 if it was okay to show this off after I had it made, as I figured other folks might want one. I know he said it was cool at the time, and I believe he even had a part# assigned to it. With his go-ahead, I will gladly share that info, Just PM me.

[Mr Tees!!]

...last coupla pics!!

[Racer Tees]

Anyone have a source for the spring plungers or something similar/strong enough to use in a DIY unit?

[Ryan]

I believe everything is tight. That last time it was worked on, I was there the whole time and spent the 16 hours replacing most of the bolts around the head area on all heads. With the way the presses are leveled out, I think it is pretty accurate. They have created there own tools to do it which makes it fairly dummy proof. The last time it was my responsibility to sign off on each thing between heads being parallel and the zeroing of the heads after that. Since you brought it up, everything is done off of 1 arm (leveling of the heads). I know Roq prides themselves on the whole pallet being level and they don't go out, no pallet deflection etc. but its a machine and I would venture to guess that heads not being level all the way is a possibility, though for some reason I think the do something with all the pallet arms first, the do all the heads to 1 pallet. Trying to remember the procedure, so maybe the pallets are all leveled first, then the heads.

For what its worth, I've committed to bite the proverbial bullet and swap my heads to U Clamps. Not something I envisioned ever using 3 years ago, but through my experience, I think the 3 point system will help in my case. I will know for sure in 2 months if that is the case. I am certainly hoping so, because if it doesn't....I will be at a lost. Roq has worked with me on this issue like you would hope a manufacturer would and I am thankful for that, because I could be singing a more unpleasant tune...

Even though I have made a decision, I still like the opinions because I think it helps more people with issues/decisions they may have and what they need to look at. Thanks to everyone who took the time to give their opinion on the matter and in mid-march i hope to have some good news on where I stand

[Ryan]

On another note, does anyone think it matters where the 3 points are located? near the corners or spaced out more evenly?