Hate to start a Pissing Contest But.......

[Gilligan]

Even if you're not big on speed, would you not want to print as quickly as possible? Wouldn't that allow you more time to do other things and be more efficient overall?

Then why are you getting a press that tops out at 750-850 pcs an hour?

You need to get a machine that doesn't table up and down... That way you can print as quickly as possible.

[jonbravado]

I've only met a few people that can LOAD more than 700 shirts an hour - much less, load them perfectly.  So speed is not everything - it'd be 3rd or 4th down my list.

There are some hotrod machines out there, but for best bang for the buck - for what people are talking about on this thread - i don't think you can go wrong with either the sabre, or the sporty - both are KILLER presses for the money.  Both companies have great service and parts.
in fact, if the sporty and sabre could have a baby - that'd be the 'perfect' press.

I think the ultimate versatility would be the sabre with one flashback and one roll in flash.  Or a 12 color sporty with two quartz flashes.

Both presses offer a TON for the money.

A lot of good comments on this thread, though.

If your average order is under 200 pcs - then setup would trump speed for me.

J

[Gilligan]

in fact, if the sporty and sabre could have a baby - that'd be the 'perfect' press.

You're one sick puppy.

[DaveZ]

...5-6 second flash time isn't all that bad...

What about the cooling/index/print time?  Please don't suggest that a flashback enables a 5-6 second CYCLE time, because it doesn't, as you know.

Anyone can come up with a scenario that favors a particular configuration.  Revolver+flash gives outstanding versatility, because you can flash as much as you need to when required, and you can also print at very high production rates when required (as witnessed by the 2-second flash times referenced elsewhere in this thread).

[GraphicDisorder]

All I've really seen postulated is that the flashback isn't as slow as ppl try to make it out to be.

5-6 second flash time isn't all that bad when it keeps you from having to burn and register a second screen on small jobs or keeps all your heads free without having to revolve.

If you have a 6 color job on darks and you have white in the design, you can get away without revolver mode with a flash back (in PFPF mode).

With only revolver and putting the flash in the unload station you would need to go around 3 times to print that job!

Flash back is certainly faster than 3 revolutions!

How slow something is relative. You might think your car is fast, I think my Z06 is probably a lot faster. Someone with a La Ferrari would say my Z06 is slow. Someone flying a jet would say they are all standing still basically. Space station operator is saying what jet?

I think we all have presented both sides and beat the dead horse. I think by now hes got enough info to make a choice as far as flash backs and revolver go.

[Gilligan]

...5-6 second flash time isn't all that bad...

What about the cooling/index/print time?  Please don't suggest that a flashback enables a 5-6 second CYCLE time, because it doesn't, as you know.

Anyone can come up with a scenario that favors a particular configuration.  Revolver+flash gives outstanding versatility, because you can flash as much as you need to when required, and you can also print at very high production rates when required (as witnessed by the 2-second flash times referenced elsewhere in this thread).

Just as a 2 second flash time doesn't equate to a 2 second cycle time either.

Every press has to index and table up and table down, I was literally counting flash time, just as you were when you said 2 second flash.

[GraphicDisorder]

Every press has to index and table up and table down,

Not every press has table up and down

[Gilligan]

All I've really seen postulated is that the flashback isn't as slow as ppl try to make it out to be.

5-6 second flash time isn't all that bad when it keeps you from having to burn and register a second screen on small jobs or keeps all your heads free without having to revolve.

If you have a 6 color job on darks and you have white in the design, you can get away without revolver mode with a flash back (in PFPF mode).

With only revolver and putting the flash in the unload station you would need to go around 3 times to print that job!

Flash back is certainly faster than 3 revolutions!

How slow something is relative. You might think your car is fast, I think my Z06 is probably a lot faster. Someone with a La Ferrari would say my Z06 is slow. Someone flying a jet would say they are all standing still basically. Space station operator is saying what jet?

I think we all have presented both sides and beat the dead horse. I think by now hes got enough info to make a choice as far as flash backs and revolver go.

Well,if you do some searching you will find actual numbers being stated that are FAR off from reality.  That's the "slow as ppl make it out to be."

Even when I messaged ppl that owned them and ppl I trusted to not blow smoke up my arse I got numbers that weren't accurate to what we've seen... Maybe they've made advancements... I know the Sabre flashback is different than the jav.

[Gilligan]

Every press has to index and table up and table down,

Not every press has table up and down

Don't let the fact that the horse is dead stop you right?

[GraphicDisorder]

All I've really seen postulated is that the flashback isn't as slow as ppl try to make it out to be.

5-6 second flash time isn't all that bad when it keeps you from having to burn and register a second screen on small jobs or keeps all your heads free without having to revolve.

If you have a 6 color job on darks and you have white in the design, you can get away without revolver mode with a flash back (in PFPF mode).

With only revolver and putting the flash in the unload station you would need to go around 3 times to print that job!

Flash back is certainly faster than 3 revolutions!

How slow something is relative. You might think your car is fast, I think my Z06 is probably a lot faster. Someone with a La Ferrari would say my Z06 is slow. Someone flying a jet would say they are all standing still basically. Space station operator is saying what jet?

I think we all have presented both sides and beat the dead horse. I think by now hes got enough info to make a choice as far as flash backs and revolver go.

Well,if you do some searching you will find actual numbers being stated that are FAR off from reality.  That's the "slow as ppl make it out to be."

Even when I messaged ppl that owned them and ppl I trusted to not blow smoke up my arse I got numbers that weren't accurate to what we've seen... Maybe they've made advancements... I know the Sabre flashback is different than the jav.

Jav probably index's slower then the Sabre, at least god I hope so. So I am sure that doesn't make him wrong, just not in the context you are answering in. I know when I watched one of those jav using a flash back on the work horse install i visited it was painfully slow and thats the context ive commented in.

Every press has to index and table up and table down,

Not every press has table up and down

Don't let the fact that the horse is dead stop you right?

It's never stopped you before!

[californiadreamin]

What Are The List Prices And Real World/Street Prices For These Fine Horses?
Price And Cost Is Very Important!
 
winston

[Printficient]

What Are The List Prices And Real World/Street Prices For These Fine Horses?
Price And Cost Is Very Important!
 
winston

Happy New Year Winston
Call me

[DaveZ]

...Just as a 2 second flash time doesn't equate to a 2 second cycle time either...I was literally counting flash time, just as you were when you said 2 second flash...

BIG difference is that the 2-second "normal quartz flash time" happens concurrently with the print stroke.  With a flashback style flash, when running with the unit in a head with a screen in it, the flash time and cooling time are AFTER the print stroke, adding to the cycle time.

Even if the flashback is used in a head without a screen, the time required to actually flash is dramatically longer than a standard flash, because of the small coverage area of the flashback.  It has to travel (front to back or back to front or both) to cover the entire image.

In either case, the flashback-style units dramatically reduce production speed.

In many cases M&R quartz flashes can gel a print in the same amount of time required by the squeegee stroke, so flashing has very little (if any) effect on production speed.

[Gilligan]

...Just as a 2 second flash time doesn't equate to a 2 second cycle time either...I was literally counting flash time, just as you were when you said 2 second flash...

BIG difference is that the 2-second "normal quartz flash time" happens concurrently with the print stroke.  With a flashback style flash, when running with the unit in a head with a screen in it, the flash time and cooling time are AFTER the print stroke, adding to the cycle time.

Even if the flashback is used in a head without a screen, the time required to actually flash is dramatically longer than a standard flash, because of the small coverage area of the flashback.  It has to travel (front to back or back to front or both) to cover the entire image.

In either case, the flashback-style units dramatically reduce production speed.

In many cases M&R quartz flashes can gel a print in the same amount of time required by the squeegee stroke, so flashing has very little (if any) effect on production speed.

I was speaking apples to apples (table up in head 2) since you can't even compare in head flashing since M&R doesn't even offer that option.

So in that instance, yes, it also flashes while the print stroke is happening.  I was referencing a real world full print... Not a 15x17 print as I don't think your average shop is doing prints like that on average. Our average is about 10" tall.

Once you start comparing in head vs stand alone you might as well compare in head vs PFPF on a six color like I did earlier with a 3 revolution situation.  Honestly that's more apples to apples than in head vs stand alone for no reason.

[Inkworks]

- Hi I have a bike and think I need a car since I'm spending 5 hours a day going to from my job.

- Toyota and Honda make some pretty decent cars, they'll get you to and from work in about 14 minutes each way. you can get a decent used one for ~ $3000

- Yeah but A Bugatti Veyron will do it in 3.1 minutes, the paddle shifters alone will save you around a second a shift, think of the ROI