Hate to start a Pissing Contest But.......

[kingscreen]

"Hate to start a Pissing Contest..."  = Starts a Pissing Contest.   

[GraphicDisorder]

"Hate to start a Pissing Contest..."  = Starts a Pissing Contest.   

[Gilligan]

You can revolve on the workhorse as well...

Hmmm, so you're suggesting revolving with a flashback?

We have a single flash back due to electrical limitations (couldn't even have a full quartz flash if I wanted one)... We have revolved a couple of times when we needed to because a particular ink was being difficult on a particular print.

It's not ideal, but it gets you through the job.

[GraphicDisorder]

Neither flash backs or revolving are best practices and certainly not in combination with each other.  I would run from each unless your scenario offers NO other solution. If someone got a job done they couldn't have otherwise then I can't fault that. God knows Shelly used to use the hell out of revolver when printing alone back in the beginning. BUT I think its just important someone points out that isn't ideal and it will slow things down. New people wont understand this unless someone tells them.

[Gilligan]

Neither flash backs or revolving are best practices and certainly not in combination with each other.  I would run from each unless your scenario offers NO other solution. If someone got a job done they couldn't have otherwise then I can't fault that. God knows Shelly used to use the hell out of revolver when printing alone back in the beginning. BUT I think its just important someone points out that isn't ideal and it will slow things down. New people wont understand this unless someone tells them.

Lots of shops flash WAY more than they need and sometimes should.  This also hinders printing.

More flashes are just a bandaid for a poor understanding of printing as well.

[GraphicDisorder]

Neither flash backs or revolving are best practices and certainly not in combination with each other.  I would run from each unless your scenario offers NO other solution. If someone got a job done they couldn't have otherwise then I can't fault that. God knows Shelly used to use the hell out of revolver when printing alone back in the beginning. BUT I think its just important someone points out that isn't ideal and it will slow things down. New people wont understand this unless someone tells them.

Lots of shops flash WAY more than they need and sometimes should.  This also hinders printing.

More flashes are just a bandaid for a poor understanding of printing as well.

Is the side topic here flashing too much or the speed of a single quartz flash vs a flash back comparison for the poster considering each???

Sure many shops flash too much.  I know shops that print flash print flash print (3 layers), you could shoot the print with a gun and it would bounce off it's so thick. This is going to be one really really long thread if we go down the path of print education and best practices for every aspect of printing.

[ScreenFoo]

"Hate to start a Pissing Contest..."  = Starts a Pissing Contest.   

Yeah, way to soft-soap it in there, right?   

I know I've mentioned this before, but I actually really like revolver mode, especially for small orders.
One less screen to burn, and time to fold shirts and count in between rounds.

That's all you'll get from me.   

[aauusa]

so Graphicdisorder do you feel the use of a flashback is not best practices because they slow down production?  some people are not as obsessed with speed as yourself.  for us the flashbacks works for us just fine but then we are not speed and speed and speed.  and to say it is not ideal is just saying that workhorse is putting out an inferior product which just gives a "bandaide" for the shops which want the full use of all heads to print a color while still having a flash, when they do not have the room/budget for a 10 color or 12 color press.

but then as you have stated you think both machines that the poster asked about where inferior to your needs and would not consider either one.  but not everyone has your needs.....

[GraphicDisorder]

but then as you have stated you think both machines that the poster asked about where inferior to your needs and would not consider either one.  but not everyone has your needs.....

Exactly and instead of just letting him figure it out we should all offer information each way.  The trouble is you were at one point acting as if Flash Backs do not slow down production. They don't in YOUR shops scenario but they do hold the speed back for those that require even modest speed and speed is a huge reason many automate. The poster should understand that.

Same as not everyone has my needs, not everyone has yours either. Laying out the limitations for him is a good idea for information purposes.

[DaveZ]

...I know I've mentioned this before, but I actually really like revolver mode, especially for small orders. One less screen to burn, and time to fold shirts and count in between rounds.

Exactly.  Revolver allows the operator to work on other tasks while the press runs, increasing efficiency.  (remember that this is a customer's comment - not the manufacturer's)

[aauusa]

...I know I've mentioned this before, but I actually really like revolver mode, especially for small orders. One less screen to burn, and time to fold shirts and count in between rounds.

Exactly.  Revolver allows the operator to do something else while the press runs, increasing efficiency.  (remember that this is a customer's comment - not the manufacturer's)

this is one of the reasons we love the flashback.  we are a small shop so we do not have 2 or 3 people running jobs, just one.

Graphicdisorder I never said or implied it slowed down production.  I even gave my real world numbers which shows what we print and as you stated that is a snails pace for your shop, and that you print 15x17 prints with a flash manually at 150 pieces per hour.  so you are big on speed.  we are not...

[LoneWolf2]

Even if you're not big on speed, would you not want to print as quickly as possible? Wouldn't that allow you more time to do other things and be more efficient overall?

[GraphicDisorder]

...I know I've mentioned this before, but I actually really like revolver mode, especially for small orders. One less screen to burn, and time to fold shirts and count in between rounds.

Exactly.  Revolver allows the operator to do something else while the press runs, increasing efficiency.  (remember that this is a customer's comment - not the manufacturer's)

this is one of the reasons we love the flashback.  we are a small shop so we do not have 2 or 3 people running jobs, just one.

Graphicdisorder I never said or implied it slowed down production.  I even gave my real world numbers which shows what we print and as you stated that is a snails pace for your shop, and that you print 15x17 prints with a flash manually at 150 pieces per hour.  so you are big on speed.  we are not...

I would not suggest we are big on speed, its a factor, but not the most important one. But yes we cruise at a much faster pace then 150pcs a hour. That is why both sides should point out differences to the poster. He might want to go faster than you, had you considered that for a second he may not be after your type of output? Hell he might find your way is exactly what he's looking for. So both sides have been presented, let him choose. My issue wasn't with using flash backs, it was saying flash backs aren't slow which IMO is not telling the full story. They will limit production in many shops. Same as revolver would.

Even if you're not big on speed, would you not want to print as quickly as possible? Wouldn't that allow you more time to do other things and be more efficient overall?

Exactly.

[aauusa]

Even if you're not big on speed, would you not want to print as quickly as possible? Wouldn't that allow you more time to do other things and be more efficient overall?

but imagine this  real world example.  freedom with flashback on head 1 press 6 color, 8 station,    design 6 colors on black , 1 operator 150 shirts.  that 1 person can print this job in 1 hour and at the end of that 1 hour not one shirt fell into the box at the end of the dryer.  they had time to catch and fold every shirt and keep the machine inked up while still be able to load and unload.  to me that is multitasking is it not.   again this is real world not imaginary  again this is 1 person that is it

[Gilligan]

All I've really seen postulated is that the flashback isn't as slow as ppl try to make it out to be.

5-6 second flash time isn't all that bad when it keeps you from having to burn and register a second screen on small jobs or keeps all your heads free without having to revolve.

If you have a 6 color job on darks and you have white in the design, you can get away without revolver mode with a flash back (in PFPF mode).

With only revolver and putting the flash in the unload station you would need to go around 3 times to print that job!

Flash back is certainly faster than 3 revolutions!