Printing on Water repellent Jackets

[Frog]

Okay, recently someone posted about a job he had wondering about what would adhere.
This month Printwear touches upon it, but to me, this is a real conundrum.

The printwear article states "To check for a water-repellent finish, pour a small cup of water on the garment. If it beads up and does not soak in after a few minutes, you could have an adhesion issue. Wiping the print area with isopropyl alcohol can help remove some of the coating and allow you to get better adhesion."

Do we really want to "remove some of the coating"? Do our custies and potential wearers-in-the-pouring-rain, want us to "remove some of the coating" of their $80 or more rain parka? How much will be removed? How does one test for an actual quantification of how much water repellency (if any) can be lost?
If I needed to, and was willing to sacrifice one, I guess I'd place the alcohol-treated jacket over a medium colored T, make a bit of a well, and pour a little water in, and see if after an hour there was visible dampness on the shirt.

Of course, I don't even direct print lined parkas like these, so would only be concerned with vinyl, and so far have had good luck without compromising the coating. Easyweed and Easyweed Extra, but I'm afraid that not all water proof coatings are created equal.

[ScreenFoo]

At this point I believe the alcohol does not remove the coating, but removes the oil and fingerprints that may be left on the coating that could interfere with the inks ability to adhere.

On the few garments that it may actually remove the coating, I'd guess it would be on sport wear (think Columbia) with something like Nik Wax that you can re-apply--but if you were to do that as a service with printing, you'd likely want to charge much more than you do to print...

Love to hear from someone who 'really knows' though. 

[Frog]

At this point I believe the alcohol does not remove the coating, but removes the oil and fingerprints that may be left on the coating that could interfere with the inks ability to adhere.

On the few garments that it may actually remove the coating, I'd guess it would be on sport wear (think Columbia) with something like Nik Wax that you can re-apply--but if you were to do that as a service with printing, you'd likely want to charge much more than you do to print...

Love to hear from someone who 'really knows' though. 

Well, the quote from Printwear definitely says it removes some of the coating, not fingerprints and their related oils.

[jvanick]

we've had adhesion issues with HTV on water repellant jackets, but printing has always seemed to be ok, at least for the stuff we've seen a year or 2 after we printed it.

[ScreenFoo]

Well, the quote from Printwear definitely says it removes some of the coating, not fingerprints and their related oils.

I said someone who 'really knows'!   

[abchung]

We are preparing some material for it right now.

Just to make sure, I just did a few test just then.

At first it seem it still is water-proof, but after all the alcohol or whatever we are using has been washed off. The water started to drip through.

The photo shows the water is dripping through.

[Frog]

We are preparing some material for it right now.

Just to make sure, I just did a few test just then.

At first it seem it still is water-proof, but after all the alcohol or whatever we are using has been washed off. The water started to drip through.

The photo shows the water is dripping through.

Are you sure that an untreated jacket of the same type wouldn't do the same?

[abchung]

Are you sure that an untreated jacket of the same type wouldn't do the same?

Our non-water-proof fabric are too thin to stop the water penetrating the fabric.

But for this project, we could not get our ink to stick onto the material after the scratch test. We later found out the customer requested water-proof fabric....

Come to think about it, what inks do they use to print umbrellas? I would love to know.

[Frog]

Are you sure that an untreated jacket of the same type wouldn't do the same?

Our non-water-proof fabric are too thin to stop the water penetrating the fabric.

But for this project, we could not get our ink to stick onto the material after the scratch test. We later found out the customer requested water-proof fabric....

Come to think about it, what inks do they use to print umbrellas? I would love to know.

I had actually meant checking another of your "waterproofed" jackets that you had not yet prepped with alcohol for comparison of how much protection was lost.

The umbrellas that I have done were long ago, but were done with a catalyzed ink that was then air dried. Their shape, of course, did not permit a trip down the tunnel of heat to speed things up.

[blue moon]

'did not read the posts, just wanted to let Frog know that his misspelling of repellent is killing me! It's in the title and keeps hanging on the front page as ppl answer. . .

pierre

[abchung]

I had actually meant checking another of your "waterproofed" jackets that you had not yet prepped with alcohol for comparison of how much protection was lost.

The umbrellas that I have done were long ago, but were done with a catalyzed ink that was then air dried. Their shape, of course, did not permit a trip down the tunnel of heat to speed things up.

Good point, I will get them to cut up some fabric and test it tomorrow.

[Frog]

'did not read the posts, just wanted to let Frog know that his misspelling of repellent is killing me! It's in the title and keeps hanging on the front page as ppl answer. . .

pierre

You are correct sir!
Between my dictation software, and spell check, they could not determine whether I meant "repellant" the noun, or "repellent" the adjective.
The voice recognition, of course, would probably blame my poor enunciation, and the spell checker gave me the old "how do I know which word you meant if they are both spelled correctly?"

So, it is changed on this reply. I'll change it on the original post (as you could have, as well as on your reply unless you're on a phone) I've edited the last few, but as for the other replies in-between, they may have to remain as-is or your post will look pretty silly, LOL!

[abchung]

Here is the same fabric that is not scrubbed with chemicals.

I filled it with water, and hung it for 15 minutes. I can't feel any water.

[Frog]

So, at least on that particular fabric, the alcohol definitely reduces the waterproofing effectiveness.
I think that we do have to point this out to clients.

[tgoeltz]

On a water repellent jacket I used Heat transfer vinyl and the customer reported that it came off.   Next I used alcohol and it did remove the water proofing.  Used a catalyst ink and then had to reapply the water proof using a spray.   The spray takes 24 hours to dry and gives off quite a smell...not enough ventilation in my shop to do it again.