Wilflex Epic mixing base + PCs; are IMS formulas OK?

[BorisB]

We had to stop using GNS  bases (Super and Plus) moving to Epic mixing base. We only mixed three Pantone shades this week, but they were extremely light. Way off the Pantone color card. We haven't tested and mixed same shade with remains of GNS plus  base we still have. 

Are the IMS formulas in general OK with 15000PFB (Epic mixing base)? First impression was rather disappointing.

Boris

[Colin]

Boris:

How did you test the color?

While the colors - Could be off - it could also be how you are printing them.

Please give us the breakdowns:

mesh count
squeegee/squeegee angle
number of print strokes
On white shirt/colored shirt/white base
auto/manual
Heat of the pallet/ink

[Rob Coleman]

Boris:  Are you using the new IMS version 3.0.?  Using the Epic formulas?  If you simply swap the base into a GNS formula, it will not be the correct color due to the varying white value of the bases.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[BorisB]

inks were too light when spread on piece of paper. We corrected them before going to press to match Pantone.

We were using formulas for 15000PFB base taken from IMS 7.4. Ink room comp is still running XP. But later compared formulas to IMS 3.0. They are matching.

[Rob Coleman]

inks were too light when spread on piece of paper. We corrected them before going to press to match Pantone.

We were using formulas for 15000PFB base taken from IMS 7.4. Ink room comp is still running XP. But later compared formulas to IMS 3.0. They are matching.

Thanks Boris.  Curious as to age of your Pantone book.  The colors can fade over time.  Really needs to be replaced annually. 

Also, Wilflex uses 156 mesh on white 100% cotton for their approvals.  Interesting that the first three you mixed were all too light.  Why don't you hit up Wilflex - techserviceswilflex@polyone.com.  They take great pride in their color formulations, and in my experience, the formulas have always been real close simulations.

[BorisB]

thanks Rob, will check with wilflex. We do replace Pantone books regulary. Discrepancies appeared when switching base, so first suspect is base, offcourse ?

[ZooCity]

Boris, we run our Epic PC mixes on the high side of the PC load.  The "stock" formulas tend to be washed out for us as well.  Upping the pigment might solve the problem but it really depends on the color. 

Out of all our ink systems the IMS is the most accurate out of the gates but again, we're mixing most inks at maximum or very high pigment load.  Then we base back down as needed.  Saves mixing time v. boosting up a mix.

[beanie357]

We had same issue.
Online v3 seems to be on point.
Was getting to be aggravating.
In house v7. Sometimes had same light ink issue.
But some were on, but could never guess which one.
pantone books lose color kinda quickie like.
By design I spect.hee Hee
Hope v3 online stays wonderful.

[SHedge]

Hi Boris,

I would like to make a few comments beyond those excellent responses to your color matching issues already posted.  In general, the Epic Mixing Base blends are a bit like interior house paint.  When it is wet, the shade is slightly lighter than when dry / cured.  Please consider checking your color accuracy with a cured sample of the ink mix.  Also, you will find the Epic Mixing Base blends to have a much more matte finish than the Genesis series inks when cured.   The gloss of the Genesis inks makes them appear as more saturated in color.  Our Epic matches were designed to target the Pantone chip color values without the influence of the gloss factor. 

Please send me the 3 colors you were unhappy with the accuracy of the matches.  We will certainly have them checked and adjusted if necessary.  Any improvements we can make for you will benefit all of our users.

[pwalsh]

Hi Boris,

I would like to make a few comments beyond those excellent responses to your color matching issues already posted.  In general, the Epic Mixing Base blends are a bit like interior house paint.  When it is wet, the shade is slightly lighter than when dry / cured.  Please consider checking your color accuracy with a cured sample of the ink mix.  Also, you will find the Epic Mixing Base blends to have a much more matte finish than the Genesis series inks when cured.   The gloss of the Genesis inks makes them appear as more saturated in color.  Our Epic matches were designed to target the Pantone chip color values without the influence of the gloss factor. 

Please send me the 3 colors you were unhappy with the accuracy of the matches.  We will certainly have them checked and adjusted if necessary.  Any improvements we can make for you will benefit all of our users.

Steve:  Thanks for the additional information, and as usual for the great tech support from PolyOne Wilflex. 

Welcome to the TSB community, and I encourage you to complete your profile information. 

People should know when you post, that it’s the famous Wilflex Ink Elf speaking 

[Rockers]

This makes me wonder about one thing. We are switching soon  from the Epic Mixing base to the Epic Amazing Base. I assume the formulas will be the same no matter which of those two bases we use?

[jvanick]

I just had the same conversation with Rob over at Nazdar about Amazing vs Epic base...

here's his notes:

The attached doc for the product release last year should help.  Summary below.  We still sell a good bit more of the Mixing Base; however more people are moving to AB.  All of our Pantone blends for custom matching  are being done with the AB Base.

The formulas in the Wilflex software are a drop-in; however there may be some slight shading issues due to the whiteness of the base.  In other words, mixing a color in the same recipe in AB versus Mixing Base will probably result in a more saturated, less tinted color.

Amazing Base - Satin Finish, low white value, brighter/clean saturated colors, excels in vector design work

Mixing Base - Matte finish, high white value, saturated colors appear slightly muted, excels in simulated process and halftone work.

(also attached the Wilflex Q&A sheet he sent me)


 

[Rockers]

I just had the same conversation with Rob over at Nazdar about Amazing vs Epic base...

here's his notes:

The attached doc for the product release last year should help.  Summary below.  We still sell a good bit more of the Mixing Base; however more people are moving to AB.  All of our Pantone blends for custom matching  are being done with the AB Base.

The formulas in the Wilflex software are a drop-in; however there may be some slight shading issues due to the whiteness of the base.  In other words, mixing a color in the same recipe in AB versus Mixing Base will probably result in a more saturated, less tinted color.

Amazing Base - Satin Finish, low white value, brighter/clean saturated colors, excels in vector design work

Mixing Base - Matte finish, high white value, saturated colors appear slightly muted, excels in simulated process and halftone work.

(also attached the Wilflex Q&A sheet he sent me)

Great, thanks for the info.