Underbasing plastisol with discharge inks, how to get started

[Rockers]

What do I need to know for this.
Do i drive the DC underbase as much in to the fabric as on a normal DC print, how long do I need to flash the u-base?
How about the top colors, all plastisol. They can print through a fairly fine mesh, right? Do I need to worry about the top color screens picking anything up form the underbase that might dry in the mesh?
How about reducing the plastisol inks, add some fashion soft to it?
How about curing temperature of the dryer, just as you would set it for any other DC job?
Oh and do you guys choke the underbase as much as you would a normal white plastisol underbase?
So many questions, sorry.

[GaryG]

Also interested. We know there are so many posts with little bits of info
here and there.

Maybe someone could post, say 5 most important Bullet points... or more if needed.

[Orion]

We do a lot of sim process with dc ubase. First thing is use straight dc base under or an 80/20 base to white ratio. CCI sells the base/white mix called "U Base". Base is driven in to the fabric as normal using 225 smartmesh. Flash till dry to the touch, for speed you will need a flash that has forced air. Top colors will pick up base if it is under flashed. Overprint plastisol runs through 255t no fashion soft added, I want to retain opacity. Set conveyor dryer to dc settings. Base plate is choked the same.
We sometimes use 150 smartmesh to base large area vector art and overprint with 156 up to 255 mesh.

[acescreen]

We've been doing this quite a bit lately. We use CCI dc inks. I separate and print the job just as I would a standard job with a base, adding a 1 point choke to the base could probably get away with a .75 choke. We use CCI dc base on a 156 up to a 255 depending image detail 4% activator. Main thing is to make sure the dc underbase is dry to the  touch and print top colors as you would normally on a plastisol job, you can reduce if you'd like to get desired feel. Set dryer cure temp as for dc printing.

[Homer]

we're slowly switching from CCI D base to the U Base for this, it seems brighter. I thought I read it was a mixture of D white and D Base but no matter what we try, it just doesn't look as bright as the U base. don't add too much white, tops colors will flake off.

[IntegrityShirts]

How are you guys printing your top colors so they don't crack later down the road after multiple washings? I have done DCUB before and top color through high mesh only to find later on that the top colors split/cracked way earlier than if they were printed over a traditional plastisol underbase. The solution would be to lower the mesh count and put down a thicker layer of plastisol over the DCUB, but then you have a little more feel to the print.  I doubt there'd be an issue if printing halftones and sim-process because the inks aren't usually grouped in large spot chunks, but a lot of the reason to use a DCUB is to get those LARGE open areas of spot color softer on the shirt.

[Colin]

If you want the inks to completely bridge the garment so the ink does not crack, then you will need to flash after (almost) every color.

How have you been printing your designs so far?   Mesh counts, squeegee blades, flashes, etc?

[IntegrityShirts]

If you want the inks to completely bridge the garment so the ink does not crack, then you will need to flash after (almost) every color.

How have you been printing your designs so far?   Mesh counts, squeegee blades, flashes, etc?

It was just one job in particular that I had that didn't look as good as I would have liked after a year. 

5 screens - no flashing at all:
DCUB 80/20 CCI (probably 150S)
3 top colors printed through 200S
1 top WHITE 150S (miami smooth)

I was printing on Next Level 60/40 blends, can't really flash for long periods, had to use the top white because one of the shirt colors was turquoise which doesn't discharge well.  I was printing wet on wet no flashing the underbase or anything so maybe that would have helped?  Prints looked great off the press and out of the dryer and heck even the first few washes were ok. But after that, splitsville.

How are you all fully encapsulating the shirt fibers with plastisol through higher than 200 mesh? Double stroke?

The more I think about it the more I lean toward a Tony state of mind, why not just go the extra effort and print it all waterbased?

[3Deep]

If you want the inks to completely bridge the garment so the ink does not crack, then you will need to flash after (almost) every color.

How have you been printing your designs so far?   Mesh counts, squeegee blades, flashes, etc?

Colin just said the magic words flash after every color which I know makes a lot of printers cringe, but you'll get a much cleaner durable print..yeah it might be a little thicker print than you would like, and it would take a much larger press.

[jvanick]

is the reason for the flashing after each color so that the next color doesn't drive the ink into the fabric as much?

-J

[jvieira]

is the reason for the flashing after each color so that the next color doesn't drive the ink into the fabric as much?

-J

we flash after every color as standard so the ink from screen 1 doesn't stick to screen 2, 3, etc.. we tried not flashing at times but the screens would clog and "pop" all the time

[Colin]

is the reason for the flashing after each color so that the next color doesn't drive the ink into the fabric as much?

-J

Correct.  Once you put pressure on a wet ink, it goes right into the garment.  It will no longer have the same fiber trap, if any (dependent on shirt type/ink base/Squeegee/mesh/ etc).

If you want the inks to completely bridge the garment so the ink does not crack, then you will need to flash after (almost) every color.

How have you been printing your designs so far?   Mesh counts, squeegee blades, flashes, etc?

It was just one job in particular that I had that didn't look as good as I would have liked after a year. 

5 screens - no flashing at all:
DCUB 80/20 CCI (probably 150S)
3 top colors printed through 200S
1 top WHITE 150S (miami smooth)

I was printing on Next Level 60/40 blends, can't really flash for long periods, had to use the top white because one of the shirt colors was turquoise which doesn't discharge well.  I was printing wet on wet no flashing the underbase or anything so maybe that would have helped?  Prints looked great off the press and out of the dryer and heck even the first few washes were ok. But after that, splitsville.

How are you all fully encapsulating the shirt fibers with plastisol through higher than 200 mesh? Double stroke?

The more I think about it the more I lean toward a Tony state of mind, why not just go the extra effort and print it all waterbased?

We don't go all waterbase discharge because of aforementioned turquoise shirts   Our owner wants extreme consistency between garments/ prints, and there are to many problem garments out there..... There is some history behind his stance (which I completely understand).  As a result, we only do full discharge for certain customers who understand the headaches. 

And Tony has the luxury of printing their own custom dyed shirts

Remember, with white plastisol base plates, you are trapping shirt fibers with the white base..... if you want the fibers trapped while doing discharge printing, you will need to flash each color to compensate for the white base not being there.

[IntegrityShirts]

That all makes sense. So you really flash between EVERY plastisol color when you print a DCUB? You must have a million flashes and a huge inrush of current when 3 or 4 flashes fire off! That's just not in the cards for us here. I have been and will keep pushing the full on wb method and steer the clients clear of problem colors. Don't get me wrong, the prints don't look bad with plastisol on top, but they definitely have that fibrillated soft feel because the ink gets smashed into the fibers. The top white may have not cracked if I had flashed the DCUB.  I'll try to find the shirt and maybe post a pic.

[ericheartsu]

is there a reason so many of you guys use 225s as your base? instead of say a 160 or 150?

[Screened Gear]

DC underbase is eather easy or a pain in the ass. I have printed up to 6 top Plastisol colors on a wet DC underbase. Its not easy but can be done. I have also done it with flashing the underbase, much easier. When you flash the underbase its really like just printing on a white or light color shirt. When you leave the base wet it will take you forever to build up the backs of the screens. If you want to do a wet DC underbase I suggest to print the top colors only until the colors are pritning well. Then turn on the underbase. Then when you start the wet DC base you will have alot less issues. I also thin my top colors so the print is super soft.