Economical Alternative to Silicone Inks?

[mimosatexas]

This is a little bit of "bitching" and a little bit of "help me out"

So I am printing just a dozen of the under armor style compression shirts, and have not printed on these before.  I do have low bleed/poly inks and stretch additive etc so I know I can get the job printed and out the door, BUT I really like what I have read about silicone inks on these things.  Huge stretch, super low cure, really smooth finish, sounds great!  ...then I look at the cost.  $60 a quart is crazy.  The design is 3 colors, so I would be looking at $180+shipping just for the ink on a 12 shirt order. 

I'm not complaining that the price is wrong for the product, just that for smaller orders and the inevitable testing I will be doing before the initial run the price makes getting your feet wet super expensive.  I think I'll have to pass for now, but was wondering what others are using instead of the silicone ink on these things.  Will my poly inks with stretch be sufficient?  Do I need some other specific line of ink, hopefully at a better price point than the silicone and without the catalyzed waste.  Any tips are appreciated!

[Orion]

Wilflex Top Score. A little less expensive than silicone, does not have to be catalyzed, so no waste. I believe it has the stretch characteristics needed for compression materials.

[sqslabs]

Ask Nazdar for a sample, a pint should get you through a 12 shirt run and you'll get to see if you like the ink at the same time. 

Edit: Whoops, just noticed its a three color job.  So the sample wouldn't help after all.

[ericheartsu]

also with silicone, you'd need LOTS of flashes. Colors don't like being stepped on.

[mimosatexas]

I'm printing manually so every color is always flashed unless it's some kind of sim process job where WOW blending is key, or waterbased/discharge.

I doubt they would send me 3 pint samples, but I guess I can always ask!

I'll look into the Top Score RFU's too.  Thanks!

[noortrd]

Bad washing.

[dirkdiggler]

performance white with plastisol on top.  do it everyday here.

[jsheridan]

After printing silicone on the same kind of compression garments with every kind of stretch and bleed resis ink out there with so so results, i say just buy it and learn to use it. youre already manual and PFP so its nothing more than different ink in the screen.

yeah it costs more as you get what you pay for and this is an ink set you can upsell.

[Rob Coleman]

Here is the way I look at it.  Silicone will cost about double the price of a Bleed Resist Plastisol.  The benefits are many - much less ink film, much more elastic (with memory!); much more drapable; much less worry about returns due to dye migration.  While there are many really good plastisols for this, NONE work all the time every time.  Too much variation in the dying process with low energy dyes that move below 300F.

Let's say you put 10 cents of ink on a shirt.  With Silicone say 20 cents.  How many $7, $10, $15 or even higher for specialty jerseys do you have to ruin to make up the difference?  Not even accounting for the hidden loss - those customers that fire you and go elsewhere....  There is a reason one of the large providers of performance wear and digi camo shirts is silicone exclusive in their operation.

With that being stated, there is a place for both chemistry.  Plastisol simply works better on some fabrics (specifically hairy/fuzzy) where silicone does not do a good job matting fibers down.  That is why we modeled our standard ImageStar color palette to the Wilflex Top Score colors.

[BorisB]

Let's say you put 10 cents of ink on a shirt.  With Silicone say 20 cents. 

This really is small difference. It means silicone ink costs less than double compared to plastisol. For us (we are in Europe) price is 4x higher than for performance plastisol from Wilflex. Plus ink that ends in waste after printjob (catalyst).

We have some in house to be ready. Just haven't managed to sell it to a single customer in a year.

[Frog]

Let's say you put 10 cents of ink on a shirt.  With Silicone say 20 cents. 

This really is small difference. It means silicone ink costs less than double compared to plastisol. For us (we are in Europe) price is 4x higher than for performance plastisol from Wilflex. Plus ink that ends in waste after printjob (catalyst).

We have some in house to be ready. Just haven't managed to sell it to a single customer in a year.

The ink that gets dumped certainly has to go into the equation as well. Same as Nylobond. Realistically, on a small run, one may have to easily mix far more than needed to get a good flood and print stroke. Small runs, now and then, are obviously not as economical as larger ones. Waste could be the same on 12 as 1200.

Bottom line, it has to go into the custy's bottom line. It shouldn't be that tough an upsell when they're already getting fancy-pants Under Armour or similar brands.

[jsheridan]

Let's say you put 10 cents of ink on a shirt.  With Silicone say 20 

Ive done the math, last print  cost us .04 per color