I'm convinced that you printers need 9 color presses if not 10. Don't do 8.

[Dottonedan]

I'm convinced that you printers need 9 color presses if not 10. Don't do 8.
To simulate the most basics of a full color design, you typically need the following.

1 Base white
2 Yellow
3 Red
4 Blue
5 Black
6 Top White

If you're lucky, all you need is one additional color if at all. Most times, (by my averages), when you MUST have an additional color, it's usually not just one. It's always two or more extra unique colors. I'm referring to bright Greens, Purples, Neons, Magenta's, fuchsia's  etc. (I'm sure fuchsia is a french word).

The thing is, most sim process jobs are not on white anymore. They are on colors or black, so you need a flash. It never fails that all I need is that one more space (to make my print all that much more accurate).

Mark Coudray once said in an article years back, that he thinks the average design can be achieved on a 10 color press or less. As a professional separator, I agree. I would also say, that if you're going to purchase a new press and you are deciding if you should get an 8 color or a 10,  Get the 10. you won't regret it

[mk162]

I agree dan, a 10 color press would really help us out of a jam on most of the work I send you.

[bimmridder]

Started with an eight,went to a ten.Now have a 12, 14, and 16. Flashes and cool downs reduce useable heads. We don't do much sim-process though.A lot of high color spot color work. 6-8 color logos on every color. Up to three metallics in some. We have all the fun.

[Im-Magic]

A good way of starting out is to get something like the Anatol Titan which can print white, flash and the reverse to print the white again. It saves one print position.

[Lizard]

We started with a 12 then added an 8.  Most sim jobs fill up the 12 if using two flashes.  Only eight heads left and with two whites and a black that leaves 5 colors.  If you are really serious about sim process I would recommend no less than a 12.  And like Bim if you are doing lots of spots you probably want 14 or more to allow for more flashes.

[inkbrigade]

We just bought a 10 and our first big job on it we had to figure out how to cut a color out of the design because we didn't have enough heads. Also if your printing fast on cheaper shirts you need a lint screen and that eats up a head.
I think we're going to be buying a Kool-Mist pretty quick. 

[tonypep]

10 is absolute minimum for plastisol sim process on darks.

[Binkspot]

We are always playing with colors to get a job to run on our 8 color. Defiantly would like to add a 12 color in the near future.

[aauusa]

Wow what am i doing all of this on my freedom 6 color then.  of course i do not use a highlight white (NEVER) and i have 2 in head flashes  so no heads are dedicated flash stations but rather a color and a flash station in one(BRILLIANT). 

  most of the time it is not always the budget that keeps the colors low but rather the space which is needed for the press!   I would have love to get a 8 or 10 color (had the budget for it)  but the building addition to get it comfortably in the room would not have been cost effective.

[alan802]

I've been amazed by some of the stuff we've done on our 10 color.  9 color on darks, no problem, we've done it.  8 color sim process, easy, plenty of room.  But we are like Dave, we do tons of spot color work, and it's always on darks, and it's always more than 3 colors it seems.

[Clark]

I havent had too many issues not having enough colors, and I have an 8 color press.  IF customers won't perfect color on sim process they are probably going to a shop with a 14 or 16 color machine anyway.   There has only been one or two times that I needed an extra color.

Having an flash back or similar is pretty much useless when running simulated process.  I can only imagine the problems that arise from p/f/p a sim process base.

[Dottonedan]

Wow what am i doing all of this on my freedom 6 color then.  of course i do not use a highlight white (NEVER) and i have 2 in head flashes  so no heads are dedicated flash stations but rather a color and a flash station in one(BRILLIANT). 

  most of the time it is not always the budget that keeps the colors low but rather the space which is needed for the press!   I would have love to get a 8 or 10 color (had the budget for it)  but the building addition to get it comfortably in the room would not have been cost effective.

I understand your view. I didn't say you "can't do sim on less. I am helping to win awards with 7 color sim process.

What I was really saying, is that if all things are possible, get the most colors on a press you can afford to get.  If you can afford a 20 colors on an auto, don't try to save money and get a 6 or 8, get the 10 at am minimum. Get as much as you can and considering that, get at least a 10 color (from my perspective) it's what is needed to do most of the difficult jobs, but not all jobs.

[Dottonedan]

IF customers want perfect color on sim process they are probably going to a shop with a 14 or 16 color machine anyway.

  Not in my experience. Most customers come to you for quality and price. How it's done or how many colors are needed is not usually an important factor to them. They don't care if you take a 10 color job down to a 7. They 9more than likely) don't realize that you saved them some money on screen charges and print cost on 2-3 screens and typically, you don't tell them.  I'll bet most of your good repeat customers come back to you only because they know you can get it done. They don't know why you can. You just do.

There has only been one or two times that I needed an extra color.

I don't think thats 100% accurate all the time.  You see, with other people doing some of your seps, they make it work for what you have. That doesn't mean that those prints couldn't be better with 1 or 3 more colors.  When I get a job in and know how many colors you can print, I say...well, yes, I can make it work in 7 colors (because I can). I my mind, I mighe be saying, well, it wont look (as good) in 7, but I can make it work.  I don't tell the customer (too often) that you should really print this with ore colors than you have (because it's not typically an option).

I once re-separated a 20 color job that was our # one selling item. It was designed and separated from an outside screen print company with the intentions of adding all those bells and whistles so that no pother print shop could run it at that time. Disney wanted to bring it back into our shop to run so that it was more profitable.  At that time, we could only do up to 13 actual colors with one flash in. This design also had Puff ink to boot. It doesn't always happen like this, but I was able to take that down to run on our press without taking any noticeable image quality away from the design. Imagine that, 20 colors down to 12 actual colors with 2 flashes. I was informed at a meeting that by being able to being that order in house, over a period of 1 year, added another $108,000 in profits be reducing the colors and keeping that job in house.

[tonypep]

Of course most of us are not in business to win awards. However if you want to grow into being able to produce 1st quality sim process on darks then yes 10 or more is what you need. Especially for licensed apparel.
Not everyones business model, floor space, and cash flow is the same. That not withstanding a good general rule of thumb is to get as many heads as you can. This is just good business sense.
BTW Dan Pierre sent me the Hellfire and Blood Moon shirts. Nice work both of you.

[Clark]

I havent had too many issues not having enough colors, and I have an 8 color press.  IF customers won't perfect color on sim process they are probably going to a shop with a 14 or 16 color machine anyway.   There has only been one or two times that I needed an extra color.

Having an flash back or similar is pretty much useless when running simulated process.  I can only imagine the problems that arise from p/f/p a sim process base.

I don't think thats 100% accurate.  You see, with other people doing your seps, they make it work for what you have. That doesn't mean that those prints couldn't be better with 1 or 3 more colors.

Sure, any print that is 14 colors could also possibly be done better with 16 colors.  But you gotta realize most folks dont want to pay for a 12 color simulated process print, and the ones that do don't normally deal with shops that only have 1 8 or 10 color auto.  When we do simulated process we normally tell the customer that it will be the most accurate reproduction that their budget allows, and it seems at least for me that is 5-7 colors.

That's not saying that I wouldnt like a 12 or 14 color machine....that would be great, but I'm not so sure my clientele would require that.  Hell half of em fall out of their chair when I tell them the 7 color price.