Ryonet advertising their own brand of discharge base and pre-mix white?????

[tonypep]

That scent is not uncommon. It is used in many products and is classified as an odorant. Typically added to mask unpleasant scents. Sorry but the clumping has me stumped though the water might be possible. The only time I ever encountered this was accidental freezing. I've literally used every discharge ink around for decades and have not had those issues. I understand that some reps and end users suggest dilluting but I have to say it is totally unnecessary.

[IntegrityShirts]

Yeah I haven't ever diluted the premix matsui white.  It is very thick and locks up when you add the agent, but if you let it sit it loosens back up on its own.

[Evo]

Everything that you guys are mentioning have been done over and over with the same exact result. Mixing the agent direct, or diluted same thing, only mixing the agent direct ended with a grit to the texture. This mix of matsui was from a brand new bucket just delivered yesterday from a different distributor than the last pre mix whites that we have got in the past. Trust me when I say, every person leaving a comment with instructions, minus a few that don't post on this board, I have tried everyone's methods only to get the same result. Now you can see why it's been so frustrating. 5 people can say no no, mix the activator by itself into the mix, 5 others will say no no no, dilute it first, matsui will say  yes, dilute the activator for white. The bottom line is, its' all coming out the same. I actually thought last night, man, what if there is something in our water here that is making that clumping happen. I'll try a mix today using distilled water. My wife is laughing at me because she's like how many different methods are you going to keep trying and getting the same mix result. When I say we have had to add a ton of water to get it loose, man, it almost seems to double the amount of the mix and still ends up as in the pics. I'll see what the distilled water has to do vs the tap water. Again though, Jason, John, Dan, Tony, all you guys, I really appreciate everyone wanting to help me out. I've been trying to get time to run over to Pat's at Real Thread since all he does is W/B printing and shadow him for a few hours, it's just been, thankfully, too busy to leave.

Mike

I would contact the distributor and let them know what's going on (and maybe get a refund/replacement).

In the meantime, call CCI and order some white. That's what I am switching over to once the Matsui I have on hand is exhausted.

[ebscreen]

To add more fuel to the fire, be sure that your drill or whatever your mixing with is on the highest
speed possible.

[alan802]

And some of you wonder why us plastisol guys haven't been all that eager to make the switch   Seriously though, that is a little intimidating when we are so used to flinging ink into a screen and being done with it.  I'll be ordering this CCI stuff in the next week or so and give it a whirl on some of our white only designs.

(all amounts are mixed by weight)
75% pre-mix white discharge
25% brite discharge base
Mix
Add 3% Fixer N
Add 3% Printgen C softener (if printing 230 or higher mesh counts)
Mix
Add 1-3% water
Mix WELL
Add 5% activator
Mix VERY WELL
Let stand 3-5 minutes
Mix well

The only way to get it all from clumping is to make sure the activator is the VERY last thing added after all other additives, pigments, water, etc and nothing else.

[Evo]

And some of you wonder why us plastisol guys haven't been all that eager to make the switch   Seriously though, that is a little intimidating when we are so used to flinging ink into a screen and being done with it.  I'll be ordering this CCI stuff in the next week or so and give it a whirl on some of our white only designs.

You can just toss in some activator, stir it up and go to town.

My mix is for manual printing, with a touchy old dryer, so the consistency and cure-ability has to be spot on for me. Also, I don't stock any RFU ink, I mix all the colors from pigment.


As with any product - YMMV.

[screenprintguy]

I have talked to both distributors that I have ordered the sui pre white from. Both have said the same thing, never hear of it happening, yet, it's happening. The cci pre white is working just as the other should. The sui white in the pics is from a batch just sent to the distributor, which is a different distributor from past batches. None the less, I'll be using the CCI/Ryo stuff. It wash test way better too. We took both batches of shirts to the washers, the cci held bright, the sui faded a little, neither had any residual hand. For me, it's been a search for a product that would be easier and less stressful to use. I'll be interested in trying the Rutland as well, but for now, the CCI was boom, activator directly into the mix, whip it up, let it sit, no water, nothing good to go. I would literally, after trashing 5 gallons of the sui white, have to stand with someone using the same product, shadow them to believe that it won't do to them, what we are seeing. Also, tried distilled water, same effect. The guy from Ryonet says it's the white pigment that Matsui uses that clumps up. Now, I haven't mixed it with a drill, maybe that type of force would break up the clumps, but that is an extra step, if CCI will whip fast by hand with no issue, print nicer, hold up on press better, and in the end, have a better white print, wash better, I think the answer was clear enough for me there. Now, other pigment mixes in Matsui brite base have been easy and awesome, so I'll stay with that, but the white, will be CCI for me. Thanks for the great thread everyone, I think the tips will be used by many!

Mike

[tonypep]

Good to hear Mike. Some may know I've been a big fan of the CCI products since they beta tested here. BTW although I haven't checked lately I believe the white is the cheapest in town........certainly cheaper than plastisol. And you really need to try to get it to freeze up in the screen.
tp

[squeegee]

As I mentioned before, wasn't as happy with the brightness of the white of CCI as compared to Rutland or Matsui (right after printing), but I think it deserves another shot.  It is definately the cheapest discharge white I know of.  A little bird told me you can buy it under the imagestar line, IMS1011.  The "imagestar" discharge base I do use and like a lot, especially the price.

[DanK]

I should stress again, you need a jiffy mixer in your shop.  They're totally affordable, and when you get it, you will wonder why you didn't have it before.

[ebscreen]

Do not mix by hand. High speed/high shear mixing is necessary. Says it right there on the pail.


Alan you're gonna love the CCI white, or any discharge white for that matter.
Little more prep on the front end but the ease of use and results are worth it.
I hate it when we have to print plastisol white.

But, to mention, CCI's plastisols are pretty nice too.

[tonypep]

It may say it on the bucket but it's not necessary. I've been mixing discharge with a stainless steel ink knife for forever with zero problems.
Whatever floats your boat though. Certainly won't hurt.

[Evo]

It may say it on the bucket but it's not necessary. I've been mixing discharge with a stainless steel ink knife for forever with zero problems.
Whatever floats your boat though. Certainly won't hurt.

Anything above a quart and I spin it, but just so my hands don't get tired. Other than that, hand mixing works just fine. I use silicone spatulas most of the time, as it's easier to scrape ALL of the ink into the mix.

This is my favorite:
http://www.goodcook.com/item/20365/TOUCH_Scraper_Spatula

[screenprintguy]

Jiffy mixer? is that an actual product? Ill check into that. Carpal tunneled up wrists as it is, this may lessen the stress factor a bit. You mean one of those paint whips that you put on a dril?

[Evo]

You mean one of those paint whips that you put on a dril?

Yep!