PMS numbers of standard inks

[Shanarchy]

I decided I'm going to start using the PMS swatchbook in illustrator as opposed to the preset cmyk color swatches.

What I would like to do, is create a book of the standard ink colors I use. So for instance, instead of creating a mockup using the cmyk red, I would use whatever the PMS color is of the red I stock. But, inks usually don't list what their PMS number is. So, how do you find this out?

Exact to the colors I have on the shelf would be awesome. But even if I could get a ballpark, (ex. standard red is 185*, although every manufacturer will vary a couple of shades) as the color on the screen is never actually true.

Do the ink companies list this info anywhere?

Thanks!

*the 185 was just a random number I through out there. I have no idea if this is true.

[Frog]

inks usually don't list what their PMS number is. So, how do you find this out?


Do the ink companies list this info anywhere?

They're not necessarily all matchable to PMS colors. I suggest that you whip out your book, and start comparing, and coming up with the closest matches you can.

[GKitson]

PMS color request information from ink companies is usually not responded to for a variety of reasons. 

The most basic involves PMS licensing issues and the rights to saying a certain RFU ink is indeed 485 or 186 Red.

Additionally, it may be perceived as a competitive issue to share that information and 'help' a competitor reverse engineer an ink formula.

I agree with Andy that you are best served by getting out a CURRENT PMS book and assigning your own equivalent number matches.

~Kitson

[jvanick]

before we transitioned to a mixing system, I sampled the pdf of the color charts that was available on Wilflex's site... that helped us get the 'standard' colors extremely close to what wilflex was sending out...

most ink manufacturers seem to have downloadable color charts these days, so might be a thought.

[kingscreen]

Union Ink tools:
http://www.swelldesignstudio.com/component/k2/item/229-color-swatches-for-adobe-union-ink-plastisol-screen-printing-inks

And...

[Frog]

Well then these Union mixing formulas are interesting  . Obviously, there is a fudge factor here.

[Gilligan]

I have an illustrator file with a nice group of Union Ink swatches already made.

Let me know if you want that.

[Shanarchy]

Union Ink tools:
http://www.swelldesignstudio.com/component/k2/item/229-color-swatches-for-adobe-union-ink-plastisol-screen-printing-inks

And...

NICE!!!

[Shanarchy]

I have an illustrator file with a nice group of Union Ink swatches already made.

Let me know if you want that.

I just installed the link that King sent me. It's 2012 color library. Is that the same as what you have Gilly?

This is going to be a great starting point for me, if nothing else.

I will probably also do what Greg and Frog suggested and try to get a number for all of my non Union inks on the shelf. Luckily at least half is Union.

You guys rock!

[Frog]

I have an illustrator file with a nice group of Union Ink swatches already made.

Let me know if you want that.

I just installed the link that King sent me. It's 2012 color library. Is that the same as what you have Gilly?

This is going to be a great starting point for me, if nothing else.

I will probably also do what Greg and Frog suggested and try to get a number for all of my non Union inks on the shelf. Luckily at least half is Union.

You guys rock!

But as I pointed out, even with Union's own mixing system, Brite Red is not always the same as the 187 they listed.
Another issue, and may affect what I just brought up,  is whether they (and you) go with the C (coated) versions or not. Just a perception issue, but not the same colors when mixed.

[Shanarchy]

[/quote]

But as I pointed out, even with Union's own mixing system, Brite Red is not always the same as the 187 they listed.
Another issue, and may affect what I just brought up,  is whether they (and you) go with the C (coated) versions or not. Just a perception issue, but not the same colors when mixed.
[/quote]

Agreed on the Coated/Uncoated.

Point definitely taken. Out of curiosity, how close is Bright Red to 187C in the pantone book? If anyone has both laying around and is bored...

I more so want to create mockups with colors that are more representative to the colors I will be using as opposed to the illustrator cmky presets. This should help me create better mockups.

I don't have many customers who require PMS matches often. Most of them (luckily) just want it somewhat in the ballpark. The majority of my customers work with me via e-mail so this could work as a good general reference. So telling a customer, "our standard stock red is called brite red. This would be something close to 187" would definitely be helpful. This is of course if it really is somewhat close.

I wouldn't gamble with this for a demanding/fussy customer or critical job.

I do need to invest in a new PMS book. I have recently found out that my old hand me down book is pretty faded.

[Gilligan]

Yeah, that's probably the same.

I didn't see what that link was, I thought it was just the swatch card below that.

[jsheridan]

Being that we are screenprinters and not offset printers, the PMS books are merely a reference book we use as not a single plastisol ink manufacturer is a licensed panton producer, they are merely certified simulations of pantone colors.

For an ink company to get that certification, they have to submit to pantone a range of primary colors that you can find in the front of the book. Once those colors are certified they then have to submit mixes made from those bases to match over 300 colors. Once those are certified, pantone allows them to say they are certified pantone simulations.

So.. if you want to setup a set of colors in illustrator or any program for that matter. You need to get the Tristimulus color values from each ink manufacturer you plan to use and plug those numbers into PS and AI so that the colors you see on screen, will match with the colors you make from your ink. This is especially important for creating 4 color process artwork.

Here is a basic explanation of that from wilflex..
http://www.polyone.com/en-us/docs/Documents/TSR79%20Interpretation%20of%20Color%20Data%20%28A%20Simplistic%20Overview%29.pdf

where do you put these numbers.. well that's where it gets tricky as you have to create an ICC color profile first and calibrate your monitor and then create a custom color palette and that my friends is something I have not done in years so you'll have to get a cup of coffee and take a class as Google University.