Split from Spyder CTS, any users on this board?

[Gilligan]

All taken into consideration... just a casual observation.  Wasn't looking to debate it.

That's a little disingenuous... Your job depends on those sales regardless if you make a commission or not.

Yeah, that's TOTALLY harsh, especially on the internet where people are typically SOO polite. 

[Gilligan]

Why were a bunch of the epson machines replaced all at once a few months ago?

Don't you remember everyone talking about all those problems they were having with them for months before this happened?

Yeah, me neither, I just remember a lot of people talking about how amazing they were and that they would sell their first born for them... don't think we ever read a negative statement about them and then all of a sudden "ABANDON SHIP!"... "but we still love them".

[Screen Dan]

BUT, the biggest reason we haven't pulled the trigger yet is I want a unit that will be shipped, uncrated, plugged in, trained, and running properly within a reasonable amount of time.  Essentially plug and play.  Right now, out of the big 3, or 4 depending on who you talk to, there is a big chance that the first CTS unit that shows up at your shop isn't going to be the one printing for you 2 months later.  I can be reasonable, but I could not imagine trying to coordinate all that I have to do while trying to incorporate a new piece of equipment that is not working properly...no thanks, I got enough problems I have to deal with.

This is a good point.  I could point to my current CTS units and tell you that the install was effortless and we were up and running within an hour of the tech being here...and that would be true.  I could also point to the second unit we bought from them sitting right next to the first where the tech wouldn't be able to get to us for a couple days so I decided to set it up myself based on what I remembered from the first unit's installation...and we were up and running within an hour.

As true as all of this is, it took 5 years of dealing with two other less than ideal solutions to finally get those turds out of the corner.  That's over $110k and countless hours of frustration to finally find the best solution.

All said, I'd take those two turds on their worst days over films...any day of the week...and we'd still be coming out ahead on expenses and image quality.

As always, your mileage may vary.

[Gilligan]

BUT, the biggest reason we haven't pulled the trigger yet is I want a unit that will be shipped, uncrated, plugged in, trained, and running properly within a reasonable amount of time.  Essentially plug and play.  Right now, out of the big 3, or 4 depending on who you talk to, there is a big chance that the first CTS unit that shows up at your shop isn't going to be the one printing for you 2 months later.  I can be reasonable, but I could not imagine trying to coordinate all that I have to do while trying to incorporate a new piece of equipment that is not working properly...no thanks, I got enough problems I have to deal with.

This is a good point.  I could point to my current CTS units and tell you that the install was effortless and we were up and running within an hour of the tech being here...and that would be true.  I could also point to the second unit we bought from them sitting right next to the first where the tech wouldn't be able to get to us for a couple days so I decided to set it up myself based on what I remembered from the first unit's installation...and we were up and running within an hour.

As true as all of this is, it took 5 years of dealing with two other less than ideal solutions to finally get those turds out of the corner.  That's over $110k and countless hours of frustration to finally find the best solution.

All said, I'd take those two turds on their worst days over films...any day of the week...and we'd still be coming out ahead on expenses and image quality.

As always, your mileage may vary.

Which units?  What headaches?

Refresh our memories, what are the two that you use now?

[Screen Dan]

We have two Douthitt CTS units (the CTS-30 and CTS-52 if I recall correctly).  The CTS-52 does our jumbo screens (up to 43"x52") and doubles as a backup for the CTS-30.

These units are simple, no frills units that do precisely what they were purchased to do.  They are built like tanks.  The software, as mentioned, is pretty spartan...but it does everything I could need it to do.

Douthitt support is unparalleled compared to the two prior units we had (Kiwo I-Jet2 and PlanetB Sprite)...as is the reliability, in my experience.  I could get into greater detail if anyone wishes to private message me for specifics.  I'm not looking to publicly smear a company with my own anecdotal evidence.  That's just not fair. 

But what I do know and will gladly say is that these machines function non-stop with very few issues...and there is yet to be a single issue that Mark fails to diagnose within seconds of a phone call--which he always picks up the phone for, from 7am EST until whenever the hell he goes home...which is after I go home, that's for sure.  He responds to e-mails within minutes and is 99.9% of the time correct with his first diagnosis...of which is usually a very simple fix.

Sure, they aren't quite the Ferrari of features that the I-Jet2 was...but we didn't need a Ferrari, we needed a box truck.  Some people may need the Ferrari.

[alan802]

I still don't see anything extreme from either side, unless you're trying hard to find something.  It feels like maybe something was edited or deleted or perhaps I'm just not easily swayed to the extremes.  Saying someone was a little disingenuous with their comments wasn't extreme, neither was Dan's response in my opinion.

Keeping things about the machines is great, and I think Dan did a good job of that in his first post.  I think he does walk a fine line and aside from one little comment to Gilligan has done great at that.  I'm not mad at anyone for either comment but let's not kid ourselves.  Dan wouldn't be praising another machine if it were really that much better than the ones he installs and even if he is speaking only facts about his employer's machines it will never change the fact that one could always have a good argument for conflict of interest. Even if the info was shared with good intentions and with no thought of being disingenuous it will always be what it is.

 

[Orion]

Which units?  What headaches?

I think they are Douthitt, which are IJet I, which are Spyder. (Spyder machine users are what we are supposed to be discussing here)

[tonypep]

Wait............there was an actual topic to this thread?

[Screen Dan]

Wait............there was an actual topic to this thread?

I'm trying

[GraphicDisorder]

Why were a bunch of the epson machines replaced all at once a few months ago?

Why were a bunch of the epson machines replaced all at once a few months ago?

Don't you remember everyone talking about all those problems they were having with them for months before this happened?

Yeah, me neither, I just remember a lot of people talking about how amazing they were and that they would sell their first born for them... don't think we ever read a negative statement about them and then all of a sudden "ABANDON SHIP!"... "but we still love them".

I had a feeling this is where this would go. You guys been wanting to get this one out for a minute right?  Big ole conspiracy among the whisper crew.

Speaking for myself only, flat out they were Epson based. If you have a Epson printer you should know exactly what I am talking about. They still had all of the typical issues you see guys having out of Epson printers now and then. Work perfect at times then WTF moments just like my current 4880. M&R clearly felt the same way or they wouldn't have made their new one a stand alone unit that doesn't piggy back off Epson. This is not hard to put 1+1 together on this. I would STILL keep that one over films. Let's face it though, technology improves, it would be like one of you buying a older whatever then deciding you'd rather the new one. It's not as big a deal as your want it to be or will continue to believe it is.  All this over a unit that isn't even manufactured any more.

I would say traded for the better model is a better description of what took place, we didn't want to fight with random Epson issues for the foreseeable future. So the ST was the right move for us, should have done it from go. So again, I didn't see need to state the obvious.

[3Deep]

LOL If all you fellas were chickens all y'alls tail feathers would be standing tall, I own a HTS been had it for years sometimes it work great some days it don't.


darryl

[blue moon]

In the interest of full disclosure, shouldn't he put that he works for M&R in his signature? Would make confusion impossible and I though that's what 244 required of his reps who post online?

What is required of an M&R when posting on this site is to identify themselves as who they are. There cannot be any hiding under fake names or alias without people knowing who they are. Dan is definitely not hiding himself and quite honestly think he is proud of what he does for a living. I do not want to add to this post as it already has lost any knowledge value. I will add Dan doesn't have to worry about a job installing our product. We are adding an additional 10 tech's this quarter. For those counting that will be a total of 63 M&R factory tech's.

I have no doubt he is proud of what he does. All I'm saying is him weighing in on the conversation about Spyder CTS users with a list of things to consider when buying a CTS and saying he has no commission to make off sales WITHOUT at least mentioning he installs the M&R units is a little off-balance.  Hell, at least Sonny blatantly plugs Xenon every chance he gets so EVERYONE KNOWS who he works for haha.

I'd rather see useful information posted as opposed to a laundry list of things to consider without mention of which hardware achieves the items on that list.  We have a good group of people here that have valid and real world opinions of CTS units and it would be nice to hear from them. I honestly feel like we are shielded here at TSB from some of the downsides of these units because owners see WHO is watching and they don't want to be honest.

If the who you are referring to is me you could not be further from the truth. I ask our customers to tell about our product good or bad. Feel free to ask any one of them if they have not heard that direct from me. Last I checked there were no secrets once more than one person knew of something.

I will confirm this. Last time we measured one of M&R units, Rich was adamant that WHATEVER we find can go public! There were no stipulations, none.

It is possible that some equipment owners don't want to express themselves on the forum due to fear of backlash, but those are personal choices. I've had issues with my press that I shared in private, but have not done in public. There is plenty of additional information that I do not share (about equipment, processes and other things one would consider trade secrets), but I have never steered anybody in the wrong direction. Actually, the more I deal with equipment, more I learn that it all has problems (some more than the others), but it's the resolution of the problems that counts and makes you warm and fuzzy when the day is over.

Even though it has not been brought up (or I missed it), the forum only condones negative posts and reviews that are informative and factual. These are a valuable decision making tool and help the potential buyer make a decision and the manufacturer gets a kick in the behind to get their crap together. Outright bashing, is not and will not be allowed.

pierre

[ebscreen]

Well, that's the first mention of trading in. You were flippant in your response as to what would happen with the epson machine on the first go around.
A bunch of machines being replaced all at once with retarded answers as to why and where doesn't exactly scream transparency. I assume the epsons
are being resold, perhaps a loophole in a c&d from Seiko?

[Gilligan]

Brandt, if there was anyone "hanging on to this" why would they... why not just pop it out if they wanted to roast anyone?

It's when things are said that conflict with the evidence on the table that people will step up and say... "yeah, but what about this?" and point back to the evidence.  No conspiracies... just facts and logic vs potential sweeping under the rug.

You also didn't buy your unit and then next week they came out with the new model and you thought "Son of a b!tch!  I want that NEW model!"  You bought your original one after it was already WAY discontinued.  You in fact got one of the VERY last ones.  So you knew it was an Epson head, and as you said, everyone knows what kind of problems you can have with Epson heads, you even had them yourself with your 4800.  Yet you were still sold on that "inferior" (by my impression from you) model over the current one.

Being the person that you are and the kind of money you are willing to invest in "the best for your business", you bought a CH3d for christ sake, it just seems like something is missing in the story on why you would buy that product and then upgrade within a month or so.

And EVERYONE bailed on that model at the same time... only thing we heard on the forums was "I'm excited about getting the new model!"... I think a lot of people were pretty shocked to see so many people that kept writing gushing reviews about their equipment all of a sudden switch from said equipment.

[Gilligan]

I still don't see anything extreme from either side, unless you're trying hard to find something.  It feels like maybe something was edited or deleted or perhaps I'm just not easily swayed to the extremes.  Saying someone was a little disingenuous with their comments wasn't extreme, neither was Dan's response in my opinion.

Keeping things about the machines is great, and I think Dan did a good job of that in his first post.  I think he does walk a fine line and aside from one little comment to Gilligan has done great at that.  I'm not mad at anyone for either comment but let's not kid ourselves.  Dan wouldn't be praising another machine if it were really that much better than the ones he installs and even if he is speaking only facts about his employer's machines it will never change the fact that one could always have a good argument for conflict of interest. Even if the info was shared with good intentions and with no thought of being disingenuous it will always be what it is.

Sadly, you didn't miss anything and nothing was deleted.

All of this explosion was over the first two post in this thread, simple as that.