Cheap Newton meter???

[shurloc]

Guys, I can totally chime in on this one... The DD won't work for measuring "tension" on the frames, but it will work for "consistency." Having dealt with both our Meter and being a drummer using a Drum Dial, they don't measure exactly the same way. For example, your Drum Dial that you use to measure the tension on your drum head won't measure exactly the same as mine. Tension Meter's on the other hand, are calibrated to measure an exact unit - so one meter should say 19N and another meter should state the same. A drum dial might say 72 on one fabric and 76 on another.

I still think that our meter at $325 is a steal considering it is newly calibrated when you receive it and it will include another calibration free after you own it. Even if you buy a used Newman for $150-200, get it calibrated for $100 and then do it again in a year or so when it needs it again, you are up over the $350 for that meter.

Also, remember, even if you don't drop it or abuse it, you want to make sure to get your meter checked for accuracy every 18-20 months at a minimum. We hear way too many stories about people letting their meters go 5+ years without calibration and cleaning. This will make measurements very suspect at best.

[jsheridan]

This does go to show how our industry has way over inflated prices on tools.

That's easy.. the tools aren't expensive, the industry is full of cheap bastids who will use a $25 dollar drum head meter to check their screen tension...
 duhhhh cause it vorks for meeeee!!

[ebscreen]

Let's get down to the real issue here. Why are so many screen printers also drummers? Or other way around?
It's a really weird correlation.

[Frog]

This does go to show how our industry has way over inflated prices on tools.

That's easy.. the tools aren't expensive, the industry is full of cheap bastids who will use a $25 dollar drum head meter to check their screen tension...
 duhhhh cause it vorks for meeeee!!

The industry is also full of some enterprising, clever folks who know how to build or re-purpose certain things similarly to the folks who sometimes jack up prices mercilessly, and then try to shame folks for being "cheap".

Not encouraging drum tuner use here, but pointing out that sometimes "cheap" is wise and frugal.

[mimosatexas]

I'm cheap and proud of it.  I'm also a (bad) drummer and have never used a drum head meter.

[dirkdiggler]

BOZO UNITS are the BOSS!

[Gilligan]

This does go to show how our industry has way over inflated prices on tools.

That's easy.. the tools aren't expensive, the industry is full of cheap bastids who will use a $25 dollar drum head meter to check their screen tension...
 duhhhh cause it vorks for meeeee!!

The industry is also full of some enterprising, clever folks who know how to build or re-purpose certain things similarly to the folks who sometimes jack up prices mercilessly, and then try to shame folks for being "cheap".

Not encouraging drum tuner use here, but pointing out that sometimes "cheap" is wise and frugal.

Yeah, sorry John, but you know full and well this is true.  "Alignment Clips" are just tool hangers and locking strips are essentially strapping that is marked up several hundred (if not thousand) times.  Good on Don for being able to get away with it... but lets call a spade a spade.

I'm a cheap bastard and I am guilty of reverse engineering a product and selling it for a nice markup and repurposing another product and selling it for a hefty markup as well.  ABSOLUTELY  I'd also never advertise to my clientele what my source is either.  So, I get it... but lets not pretend it isn't happening daily.

[jsheridan]

Yeah, sorry John, but you know full and well this is true.  "Alignment Clips" are just tool hangers and locking strips are essentially strapping that is marked up several hundred (if not thousand) times.  Good on Don for being able to get away with it... but lets call a spade a spade.

Actually they are fuse holders.

the locking strip is specially manufactured, with a small groove in the edges to aid in locking the mesh. It's also made from materials that are flexible and chemical resistant too handle a wide range of chemicals used in all forms of screen printing that require crazy tight tolerance.. things that lazy shirt stainers have no need for as their strapping material.. vorks for meeeeee!

[mooseman]

I think the point I was trying to make suffered from my presentation.
offering the point another way all you have to understand how important it is for you to know what time it is and what advantage you get from spliting seconds.

Static frames ....AKA
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Casio-Men-s-Analog-Dive-Style-Watch-Black-Resin/17403596   $15.97

 
reten frames dialed down to the finest degree using the finest tools to acheive the most accurate results...AKA
Bulova Precisionist Men's Watch 96B175
http://www.kay.com/en/kaystore/bulova-precisionist-men%C2%92s-watch-chronograph?cm_mmc=360i-_-MerchantCenter-_-PLA-_-Ad&utm_source=pla&gclid=CKeYwZDTlMICFcdj7AodUiUAyA   $599.25 with special attention to the twenty five cents added to the price

And just so i am not misunderstood  i only have Newman MZX frames an use my Newman tension meter all the time.
I have had it for several years have never sent it in for calibration, and checking it  for accuracy every 18-20 months at a minimum just doesn't fit in my garage shop. While my measurements are most likely suspect and I get to Miller Time  a few seconds late the beer is still just as cold when I knock it back.
mooseman

[Dottonedan]

There are plenty of things in the industry that seem easy or cheap or a simple copy of a widget, BUT, knowing what is needed (as it applied to you) and you're screen printing needs, is another thing.


How or what device you use to measure tension, makes no difference to me. The need is in a consistent numbering method that you can use a gauge and compare to other reference points as someone eluded to already. Tension IS indeed very important in screen printing. It's importance is weighed by the work you do or your level of need for accuracy.  If doing small orders for the local baseball team, you may find that you don't need a tension meter.  If doing licensed products or retail prints, I would get one.


Some people don't use a pantone book EVER, nor do they have any type of mixing system. That doesn't mean that they are less of a skilled shop or printer, but I would suggest eventually being able to do this. Some day a very good customer (outside of your normal customer base) may come to you with specific needs and a cardinal red is not close enough and custom ordering pantone mixes from the supplier may not be efficient or as profitable after a while.


Some don't have a tension meter, but I suggest getting one (or something) to measure consistency between screen to screen...so that you can combine the use of similar tensioned screens in your job for better, more consistent registration as one example. A 20 and a 27n mesh can yield adverse affects on some jobs.  You may have 20% of your screens at 27N and another 50% at 24n and another 20% at 20n and another 10% should be in the re-mesh pile.  Mixing them in the same job can prove to be a headache. This pertains to both static and retentionables.


I once received a color print from a customer and an artist was upset that the customer described the color by a name as well as gave a PMS color with it.  The artist said that the name of the green that was chosen was incorrect, it looked nothing like chartreuse green and sent it back to me for clarification.  I said that the customer provided a color print, designating te area where the green was to be, and they called it out by using a specific PMS color. So if the customer want to call it chartreuse or snot green it doesn't matter, it's the green. They called out a pantone color, so that should be enough. We had two reference points, lets go with it.  Sometimes you don't need a fancy name, all you need are some good reference points to come to an accurate or averaged conclusion.

[alan802]

I've been told from more than one guy that knows a lot more about screen printing than I do that about 90% of the issues the average shop (the one using 15 newton statics or non-maintained newmans) has is directly related to screen tension.  How do you measure that?  If you can't measure it then what?  The lack of standards in our little corner of the screen printing industry is almost comical, and when we do have areas to discuss and even maintain some sort of standard, I read some of the posts on this thread and I'm reminded why we don't have standards.  I'm not going to argue with someone on the merits of having a tension meter because it's a losing argument because someone will say that they've "done this super high quality printing for years" without the need of any type of tool and who am I to argue with that?  It's probably not true due to the subjective standards we all have about what constitutes a high quality print, but a "he said, she said" argument is never constructive in this arena.

I will say this for certain, the day we got our tension meter was the start of us becoming more than just another screen printing shop.  There's nothing wrong with doing average work and getting paid for it, I'm not knocking that at all, but if you want to be a world class print shop, printing thousands of pieces per day or doing 15 multi-colored setups per day with one automatic press, then you need to pay close attention to screen tension.  If someone wants to argue against that then fine, I won't listen but perhaps you'll get someone to back your play, but I won't go back and forth about it.

I would actually listen to the argument for not having a thickness gauge, if you coat using the glisten method then you're likely well within the limits of stencil thickness, but I think a tension meter is far from being just another useless tool in a screen printing shop.

[shurloc]

I think the point I was trying to make suffered from my presentation.
offering the point another way all you have to understand how important it is for you to know what time it is and what advantage you get from spliting seconds.

Static frames ....AKA
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Casio-Men-s-Analog-Dive-Style-Watch-Black-Resin/17403596   $15.97

 
reten frames dialed down to the finest degree using the finest tools to acheive the most accurate results...AKA
Bulova Precisionist Men's Watch 96B175
http://www.kay.com/en/kaystore/bulova-precisionist-men%C2%92s-watch-chronograph?cm_mmc=360i-_-MerchantCenter-_-PLA-_-Ad&utm_source=pla&gclid=CKeYwZDTlMICFcdj7AodUiUAyA   $599.25 with special attention to the twenty five cents added to the price

And just so i am not misunderstood  i only have Newman MZX frames an use my Newman tension meter all the time.
I have had it for several years have never sent it in for calibration, and checking it  for accuracy every 18-20 months at a minimum just doesn't fit in my garage shop. While my measurements are most likely suspect and I get to Miller Time  a few seconds late the beer is still just as cold when I knock it back.
mooseman

Does that make our EZ Frame System one of these, but only in performance, not price...

http://www.rolex.com/watches/day-date/m118395br-0006.html

[mooseman]

I once knew a guy who purchased a $6000.00 set of golf clubs from a pro shop . The clubs did nothing to improve his game primarily because he never had a grasp on the concept of golf. His long and short game were still about average and when he lined up a put with his new putter his result was pretty much the same.

mooseman