Possibly going CTS

[Orion]

And for the record the shirt we won 1st with at impressions.......

and the shirt we won with back in 04 or 05 was from films off an Oyo Techstyler

CTS machines don't win awards

The 2014 CTS machine of the year award goes to........ M&R Print, Glen Ellyn, Illinois....



Ahhahahaha!

[screenprintguy]

I've been printing our halftones at 1440x1440 bi-directional. I changed some settings in the rip on channels used and dot size for the "epson". Dirkdiggler prints 720x720 bidirectional halftones with his "epson" based I-image and his work is pretty dam flawless. He's using Kiwo Discharge emulsion. I may try that. We use Chromablue for our plastisol.

[DannyGruninger]

And for the record the shirt we won 1st with at impressions.......

and the shirt we won with back in 04 or 05 was from films off an Oyo Techstyler

CTS machines don't win awards

Cool story bro..... The point is we won the award with our cts printing at max speed, another poster mentioned his KIWO i jet he has to print UNI directional.....

The point is the m&r is the fastest CTS by a long shot and you can still print high quality at that speed. Screens will be done and finished with an ste where that wax machine will still be printing screens. You can have speed AND quality with the m&r..... Not so sure about the speed part with the other machines

[244]

Yep I know I am probably one of the last persons on here you would think would go CTS.

Heres how it is playing out. It is the owner not me that got interested in the tech. He really likes it and since we had an amazing year so far the cash is their to buy. He understands it is not an ROI that will happen in one year but looks at it as more of a future investment and the ability to remove all the steps between art and screen. I am certainly excited for it since it will make my job easier and hopefully improve printing quality.

As with anything he expects to know all the available units out there and their pricing, what is included and what isn't, who offers the best warranty, tech installation pricing included or not etc etc.

We have it narrowed down to three units. The Douthitt CTS, the Spyder, and the M&R CTS ST. I actually think the Spyder is crossed off the list.

Douthitt is wax based and is a very proven application, I have so far talked to three owners that have great reviews of wax. Next week we are heading to a shop in state that has been using the Douthitt for quite a while.

The M&R is an Epson engine. A couple people I know from here have complaints about the ink and issues with its reaction with the emulsion, something about soaking in. The best route is to go with the STE of course and not have that issue. I guess?

The Douthitt is rough quoted at $57K full install included. This system does not expose so we would keep our MSP3140.

The M&R CTS single head is $49K and I do not know if this includes install or not. This unit does not expose but I am concerned with some of the complaints I have heard about the ink.

We like the sound of the STE but for another $12K wow! Not sure where that value is at, the STE is exactly the same machine except it has an LED light bar installed. If the machine was similar to the Douthitt then it would be a no brainer. As it is we already have a basically new $7K MSP3140.

As said we will be checking out a Douthitt in action next week, hopefully we can find a close location that has an M&R unit we can check out Rich any ideas?

The i-image is Epson based which we no longer make but have a couple left in inventory. The i-image st,ste,steII all are ricoh gen 4 head based and built in house as a industrial printer. The ink issue you mention was about 2 years ago when we first switched from Epson. Those issues are long gone and were in the long run found out to be an issue with humidity. If you would like to visit a customer with an i-image there are plenty as over 200 units have been installed since January and lots more being shipped weekly. Feel free to contact me if you would like to visit some customers.

[dirkdiggler]

I've been printing our halftones at 1440x1440 bi-directional. I changed some settings in the rip on channels used and dot size for the "epson". Dirkdiggler prints 720x720 bidirectional halftones with his "epson" based I-image and his work is pretty dam flawless. He's using Kiwo Discharge emulsion. I may try that. We use Chromablue for our plastisol.

I don't know about flawless....but thanks!

[inkman996]

Back to this topic after Dan has apparently butt dialed the forum.

A whole lot of info in this thread and a lot of clearing up on some confusion. The thing i noticed is with M&R's unit things have changed fast with next gen machines. The Douthitt is basically the same machine for several years.

I am really glad to hear that ink sitting on the screen is a non issue, it would be very important for me since I would prefer to be able to print screens and store them till my guy does the exposing. Just like I make films, I do it through out the day as it is and want to keep it that way.

A lot has been talked about concerning speed, its an important factor for some but not for us. We do not run near the amount of screens as many shops here so timing is not a huge importance, the time saved already cutting out film and quicker exposure is already a major benefit.

From what i understand the STE with the light bar is sufficient for pure photopolymer emulsions but if we wanted to do dual cures it may slow down the process to much to be a benefit, and I do want to be able to use dual cures more. As it is with our 1100K its impractical to use dual cures. Take out the glass it might be practical. So we would probably not entertain the STE but stick with the ST.

My plan is to fabricate a frame for the glass with heavy duty hinges on the back so I can lift up the glass and brace. If the time comes we need to use film I can simply lower the glass in place just like the vacuum blanket. I still will sort out the most important films to keep and continue to use till they are worn out, no need to waste good films on oft repeated jobs.

Another thought is the price to replace heads between wax and ink. I know the wax heads are very expensive, what is the comparison to ink jet heads?


Rich we would very much appreciate any help in finding a close by I-image we can see in person, I am sure there must be one some where around here.

[inkman996]

Oh and imagine we go M&R I might have the horror...oops I mean Honor of having Dan the man here.

[Alex M]

Back to this topic after Dan has apparently butt dialed the forum.

A whole lot of info in this thread and a lot of clearing up on some confusion. The thing i noticed is with M&R's unit things have changed fast with next gen machines. The Douthitt is basically the same machine for several years.

I am really glad to hear that ink sitting on the screen is a non issue, it would be very important for me since I would prefer to be able to print screens and store them till my guy does the exposing. Just like I make films, I do it through out the day as it is and want to keep it that way.

A lot has been talked about concerning speed, its an important factor for some but not for us. We do not run near the amount of screens as many shops here so timing is not a huge importance, the time saved already cutting out film and quicker exposure is already a major benefit.

From what i understand the STE with the light bar is sufficient for pure photopolymer emulsions but if we wanted to do dual cures it may slow down the process to much to be a benefit, and I do want to be able to use dual cures more. As it is with our 1100K its impractical to use dual cures. Take out the glass it might be practical. So we would probably not entertain the STE but stick with the ST.

My plan is to fabricate a frame for the glass with heavy duty hinges on the back so I can lift up the glass and brace. If the time comes we need to use film I can simply lower the glass in place just like the vacuum blanket. I still will sort out the most important films to keep and continue to use till they are worn out, no need to waste good films on oft repeated jobs.

Another thought is the price to replace heads between wax and ink. I know the wax heads are very expensive, what is the comparison to ink jet heads?


Rich we would very much appreciate any help in finding a close by I-image we can see in person, I am sure there must be one some where around here.

I will send you a list of customers near by that are willing to allow demo's! Please PM me your address so we can get it arranged. If you want to have one of your emulsions tested with a file for speed on print and exposure we will be happy to do so. Let us know if you have any questions!

[screenprintguy]

Mike, I know a lot of shops with larger staffs aren't yet sold on CTS as they have plenty of hands to take care of tasks. But as a busy shop with a skeleton staff, I guarantee if you go CTS, you are going to be super happy with how things can flow. Just make sure you pick the right unit for your flow. If you can push the budget as much as you can and get the most you can so that you know you can grow into it. You may do a smaller amount of screens now, as we did when we first got ours, but now we do almost triple the amount of screens weekly  from 2 years ago, and I can see, and hope, that this still increases in time, we now see having a higher capacity unit will be essential. Take Alex M up on his contact offering. I can tell you this much, Alex M has been a superstar in helping me out even though it's not his position, he always answers me within minutes and has gotten me through any issues I may have encountered. Even when he's been on the other side of the world, lol, he will text or email back in minutes. M&R is very fortunate to have him on staff. Not taking anything away from anyone else, but he was there from the beginning of our install and is still there now. He knows his stuff and really cares. Imagine imaging a couple days worth of pre-registered screens, stacking them in your light safe room, and then coming in the next day, or at you convenience , exposing them. Or if you get the STE, they are done, they just need a rinse. Some times, If I have to image a few screens mid day, and I know I have other seps ready, I'll run the others as well even if I'm not going to expose them till the next day. The best part is, half of the battle is done in one shot. If you go with STE or STE2 2/3's is done at one shot. I've contemplated, well, maybe FPU isn't so bad, but then my wife smacks me in the back of the head and says, yea right, lol. You will see a major work flow change, especially in a smaller busy shop with less hands on deck to do all of the tasks. Feel free to hit me up if you ever need to shoot the shizzle.

[jsheridan]

The point is the m&r is the fastest CTS by a long shot and you can still print high quality at that speed. Screens will be done and finished with an ste where that wax machine will still be printing screens.

I don't disagree, however their machine can't handle our 28x38 screens with MHM buttons on them... so that leaves us that don't swallow the blue pill to find other means and douthitt was more than willing to customize their machines for us.

[244]

The point is the m&r is the fastest CTS by a long shot and you can still print high quality at that speed. Screens will be done and finished with an ste where that wax machine will still be printing screens.

I don't disagree, however their machine can't handle our 28x38 screens with MHM buttons on them... so that leaves us that don't swallow the blue pill to find other means and douthitt was more than willing to customize their machines for us.

We actually make a machine that handles up to 43" long screens which easily handles the MHM frame with attachments. Just a FYI.

[GraphicDisorder]

That's straight from the source.

[jsheridan]

We actually make a machine that handles up to 43" long screens which easily handles the MHM frame with attachments. Just a FYI.

Is that the one that's at an angle.. It was at ISS long beach 2 yrs ago maybe.. If that's the one, i remember that thing was huge and will take up a large part of my screen room. Print times the same and option for LED bar?

Douthitt runs vertical and has a very small footprint.

Why do you guys run horizontal while others go vertical

[244]

We actually make a machine that handles up to 43" long screens which easily handles the MHM frame with attachments. Just a FYI.

Is that the one that's at an angle.. It was at ISS long beach 2 yrs ago maybe.. If that's the one, i remember that thing was huge and will take up a large part of my screen room. Print times the same and option for LED bar?

Douthitt runs vertical and has a very small footprint.

Why do you guys run horizontal while others go vertical

Its the i image st, not the image. The st series is not at an angle. its horizontal. Our system is really not that large and does a whole lot more than any vertical system out there.

[inkman996]

It would make me very happy to know if any of these machines can fit through a 36" door