i-Image in the house!

[islandtees]

For us, "me" it was all about quality of LIFE. So I had to wait a little longer to get my Harley, but the headaches and other stuff that went around carrier sheets and all that would have kept me from riding anyway,so we got the CTS. Now it's up'd our efficiency to justify and see the need to add another auto within the next few months, so as a small shop owner, it was an awesome addition! Gary-Islandtees-- not sure if you remember me, I came to your shop a few years ago, bought a bunch of newman frames from you. I've seen your nice operation, and how busy you guys look, if I were you, I would seriously consider a CTS! Hope all is well with you and Laura!

Mike

Hey Mike,
Of course I remember you. You sure as hell grew fast and seem to be doing great. Happy for you!!!
Yes we are very busy and considering one of these.
I may have to come to your shop and check it out 1 day.
Gary

[screenprintguy]

For us, "me" it was all about quality of LIFE. So I had to wait a little longer to get my Harley, but the headaches and other stuff that went around carrier sheets and all that would have kept me from riding anyway,so we got the CTS. Now it's up'd our efficiency to justify and see the need to add another auto within the next few months, so as a small shop owner, it was an awesome addition! Gary-Islandtees-- not sure if you remember me, I came to your shop a few years ago, bought a bunch of newman frames from you. I've seen your nice operation, and how busy you guys look, if I were you, I would seriously consider a CTS! Hope all is well with you and Laura!

Mike

Hey Mike,
Of course I remember you. You sure as hell grew fast and seem to be doing great. Happy for you!!!
Yes we are very busy and considering one of these.
I may have to come to your shop and check it out 1 day.
Gary

You guys are always welcome Gary!! Glad you guys are still rockin over there! I'll keep an eye open for you tomorrow in case you happen to make it over to ISS. I saw you last year, grabbed my wife to bring her over to say hi, turned around and you were gone, lol, Ninja style! Have a good one!

[Inkworks]

One thing is for sure.  CTS/DTS has become a pretty passionate topic on this forum.  Seemingly more so than more important things in the shop or how to run a business to start with.

I think a lot of want to believe, but we just keep getting "the ROI is there, and huge, it just can't be put on paper"

There is no doubt CTS has some advantages, but when we try to do the math compared to just using a good FPU it doesn't add up on paper. Maybe when the price of the machines comes down to 4-5K it will happen, until then it just sounds like salesmanship.

I've said it before, all purchases don't need to be justified beyond "we wanted it so we bought it and it makes us happy". my 60" squeegee sharpener falls into that catagory.

[Sbrem]

Boy this is a long read... as much as I love new stuff, I just can't quite get too excited about DTS/CTS, but I'd like to. So, one of my first questions, and I believe they would be best answered by someone like Dave, who's been using it for 10 years, is, are presses idle because screens aren't ready on time? I can't see how that can happen as we're always a day or two ahead, except for the jerk customers who can't make up their minds until the last minute, as we all know. So, we would never have a press standing idle (we have 2 autos, 3 manuals, and 3 dryers). And if a screen pops on press, I can't see how imaging a screen to burn is faster than putting the film on it and burning it. I can see how in the art department the need to produce films will be gone, so they can go on to the next art job. But no one here stares at the film printer waiting for the film to come out, they go back to work doing whatever else. I get the info about much faster setup times too...
I also read about Dave burning 180 screens in a day; what size are the jobs? I really can't see where we would put out 180 screens in a day, or per day rather, to keep the presses running. We also have vast backlog of art on film, (don't most of us) and for reorders, why would I image a screen instead of taping the film on it and burning it? How could that be faster? Please take into consideration guys, that I'm not trying to be a wiseguy or challenge anyone, just looking for some logical, straight answers. For my history, I go back to tray developing films, before PMT, (you older guys know what that is) and thought PMT was a miracle. For you younger guys, PMT was like a Polaroid version of making film positive, shoot one sheet, sandwich it with a clear sheet, and run it through a single bath solution in a processor to make the image transfer to the clear sheet. But I digress... great conversation by the way...

Steve

[alan802]

I congratulate all those guys who don't have to worry about the ROI on a piece of equipment.  I wonder if all we did was screen printing in a building not worth a million dollars maybe we'd be able to pay cash for an STE II but that's not reality for us.  If it were only my decision I think we'd make the move and have the payment but by no means would it be a "no-brainer decision" and again, for those where it is a no-brainer, congrats.  But you have to understand that the numbers I throw out there are real for this shop and that's what I do, I analyze and use numbers that I know are real because the numbers don't lie.  There is not yet a bottleneck with our film printing and the amount of money we spend on film and inkjet film is not that much so there is another factor that doesn't favor CTS as much as it might another shop.

[3Deep]

I agreed with ya Steve and @ homer why would you want to pay an unskilled worker good money to push a button, automation is really dumbing down the work force so to speak ( yes I know dumbing is not a correct word) but you all get the point.  I would rather have to pay a skilled worker that could do other things as well as the job I really pay him/her to do which is always a plus.  Now putting a machine in the place of lazy azz people that don't want to work is again a whole new ball of wax.

darryl

[dirkdiggler]

Ok, here is something to consider that I don't think anyone has brought up.  Last year my artist was ready to quit!  If he had 20 approvals, it took about 2 or 3 days to just output film.  Customers were getting pissed because we couldn't do art fast enough, and I even have 2 contract artists on my payroll.  It was either he was going to quit, or I was gonna hire another fulltime in house artist, or I was going to buy a CTS and make everybodys job WAY EASIER!  Guess what I did?  Guess who is happy now.  My artist can now do 2 or 3 times the art he was doing, that alone is enough to change to CTS.    I was scared about the money like many because I have brand new EVERYTHING at my shop.  But a wise man, I wont mention your name, but you know who you are, kept telling me, "you are stepping over dollars to pick up pennies, or something like that"  He was right!  If anyone needs any real world advice for getting one or not getting one, give me a call, I can tell the truth in my experience.  Don't try to justify if you do enough screens or not.  If you can afford it, DO IT, and thank me later.

[islandtees]

Ok, here is something to consider that I don't think anyone has brought up.  Last year my artist was ready to quit!  If he had 20 approvals, it took about 2 or 3 days to just output film.  Customers were getting pissed because we couldn't do art fast enough, and I even have 2 contract artists on my payroll.  It was either he was going to quit, or I was gonna hire another fulltime in house artist, or I was going to buy a CTS and make everybodys job WAY EASIER!  Guess what I did?  Guess who is happy now.  My artist can now do 2 or 3 times the art he was doing, that alone is enough to change to CTS.    I was scared about the money like many because I have brand new EVERYTHING at my shop.  But a wise man, I wont mention your name, but you know who you are, kept telling me, "you are stepping over dollars to pick up pennies, or something like that"  He was right!  If anyone needs any real world advice for getting one or not getting one, give me a call, I can tell the truth in my experience.  Don't try to justify if you do enough screens or not.  If you can afford it, DO IT, and thank me later.

I don't understand, it takes days to output film? We do many jobs and output films very quickly. Seperations that is done takes the time, not outputting film. Maybe Im missing something here, does the machine do the seperations also. Do you still have to do seperations before sending it to the machine? If you still have to do seps then the machine seems to be a big film printer going on the screen and not films. Please give me more insight on the procedure once the artwork is completed.

[dirkdiggler]

Epson 4900 output a 10 color job at 1440 takes about 7 mins. per film add that up over 20 jobs.  Its slow go.  My artist also had the task of doing that AFTER he did the seps.   This was enough for the change at MY SHOP!  Again, MY SHOP.

[islandtees]

Epson 4900 output a 10 color job at 1440 takes about 7 mins. per film add that up over 20 jobs.  Its slow go.  My artist also had the task of doing that AFTER he did the seps.   This was enough for the change at MY SHOP!  Again, MY SHOP.

Now I see why. In our shop we have 1 computer just for film output. When our artist  seperates the job they input the seps in the computer. Hit the button and the rip makes the films. During that time frame the artist doesn't watch films being made, but begins the next separation job on another computer. That's why we can produce many films and seperations in a shorter time frame. That's in our shop. MY SHOP! I still have not seen convincing discussion how this makes a big difference in a shop other than saying it does. I would like to know the procedure from the completion of artwork till inputting the seps in the machine and time  frames. Everyone just keeps saying how great this is. Im sure it is, but I need more info to see if this fits my shop.

[dirkdiggler]

yeah your right, you probably shouldn't get one.

[Gilligan]

Yeah, I don't follow the films printing being the hold up.

We certainly aren't bottle necking anywhere because we just aren't that busy.  But, films print out slow and that is never an issue.  As everyone has said, load films, hit print and then go about your business... later on when you pass the printer, pick up the films.

[dirkdiggler]

I agree, and that's how we did it, but you have to cut them all and put them all a carriers, it takes time.  Put 20 10 color jobs on carriers.  It takes a lot of time and its not consistant like the cts.  I put up a 10 job and start printing.  Not messing around with micros for half an hour.  Not for everyone I understand, but I haven't heard anyone who has one say they wish they didn't buy it.  Islandtees, go see Mikes.  He helped me make my decision.

[Gilligan]

I get it.  Carrier sheets.  That was my missing link.  I have a hard time understanding why anyone would use them so I never think of them in these discussions.

[TCT]

put them all a carriers, it takes time.  Put 20 10 color jobs on carriers.

Bingo! There is your time suck.