Ghosting/shadow on print

[Denis Kolar]

Yes, I'm using vinyl... sticking it to the bottom of the screen (shirt side).  How do you think that is causing me problems?  I'm not second guessing you, I've just read of a lot of people using it successfully... now one guy's "success" might not be equal to your's or mine, hence why I'm here.  The vinyl has a Film Thickness of 2.8 mil.  So I'm creating a gasket effect with that like emulsion would.  Once I stopped flooding the screen while down, the images sharpened up (at least the edges).

I have never used vinyl for stencil, but my thinking id that maybe vinyl adhesive could have something to do with the fuzzy edges (might be a stupid thing to say, but for some reason I think that might be the issue). Maybe the ink gets "stuck" to the adhesive and that is what makes the print fuzzy.

How about squeegee pressure. If you push too much that might cause fuzzy print too.

That is my thinking, it might be stupid thing to say, but not much experience here with vinyl.

[Frog]

differences with hoodies;

May need more pressure or more strokes. (in a perfect world, I'd go a little coarser in mesh choice on a fleece-exclusive job).

You will need more stickum more often (btw what do you use?)

Hoodies will probably be a poly blend so make sure to use a low bleed ink. Now, whether you can carefully monitor the heat carefully enough to both get cure and not get dye migration could be another issue. As you may have read, low bleed inks on 50/50 don't want to get above 340, to reduce likelihood of the shirt's poly dyes sublimating into white ink.
To make matters worse, it sometimes does not appear for a week or more.

[virgil427]

Gilligan its the hinges i'd worry about , if theres .017 of slop at the hinge over a 24 inch screen you cuold be looking at over 3/8 of an inch offset, now this is exagerrated. But if you put a piece of wood either side of your screen 18 in. out from your hinges just touching the sides of your screen this will take care of side to side registration. If your getting ghost image from ink while your flooding it should be on the bottom of your gasket that would be easy to see thats either from your gasket or from to much pressure on print stroke amd you'll see ink around the edges of your gasket this is why i thought of side movement it wouldn't take much I'd like to see a pic of a shirt if possible. As far as not clearing screen play with location of shims and thickness and keep the front and rear of screen the same. Ive only been doing this for just over a year myself and come from a mechanical and fabricating background thats why I love your press .It's the "I'm not gonna buy what I can build mentallity' i love it

[DouglasGrigar]

Yes, I'm using vinyl... sticking it to the bottom of the screen (shirt side).  How do you think that is causing me problems?  I'm not second guessing you, I've just read of a lot of people using it successfully... now one guy's "success" might not be equal to your's or mine, hence why I'm here.  The vinyl has a Film Thickness of 2.8 mil.  So I'm creating a gasket effect with that like emulsion would.  Once I stopped flooding the screen while down, the images sharpened up (at least the edges).

Virgil427,  Yeah... the press is pretty Ghetto-rific!   I can't say for certain but I'm pretty sure I'm not getting any side to side movement... but I'll check when I get back home.  That 2x4 contraption is liquid nailed AND screwed together by 5 screws (of two different lengths)... that part is beyond solid.  I'm holding it to the press via screw type furniture clamps and they don't budge either but that would probably be the weakest link.  Well that and any slop in those jiffy hinges, but they are fairly tight.

But I am interested in your registration gate, but I'm not following what you mean.

For what it's worth... I have looked at the shirts with a fresh set of eyes and I feel like the flooding was my problem with the shadow print... as the ones that I did later did not have this issue.  My main beef with the prints as they stand now is consistency in ink deposits... mine are all over and generally too "thick" but with out the thickness I was missing spots.  I think this was due to too little off contact exacerbated by a low tensioned screen. 

I have another job of white on navy coming up this weekend with a few hoodies added to that.  I will see what I can do with that.  Speaking of, anything I should watch out for adding hoodies into the mix.  Obviously off contact will need to be raised... anything else?  What about curing under my flash?  Stick with the same as I have been doing (compensating for thickness?)

Vinyl as a stencil, how things change or increase with information, this also could be a big problem.

[Frog]

Yes, I'm using vinyl... sticking it to the bottom of the screen (shirt side).  How do you think that is causing me problems?  I'm not second guessing you, I've just read of a lot of people using it successfully... now one guy's "success" might not be equal to your's or mine, hence why I'm here.  The vinyl has a Film Thickness of 2.8 mil.  So I'm creating a gasket effect with that like emulsion would. 

Vinyl as a stencil, how things change or increase with information, this also could be a big problem.

It's true, some of these methods that are not uncommon on T-Shirt Forums and YouTube are alien to me, and I used to pride myself in helping folks use "non-traditional" diy processes.

[Gilligan]

Frog... I use Textac... from what I had read it seemed like the best way to go, so I figured I'd start out the right way (even if I'm using vinyl as a stencil on a ghetto-fabulous press )

This 50/50 thing has me nervous now.  They are navy shirts with white print. *gulp*  Luckily I only have about 36 to do but that is front and back.  About 16 are hoodies.  Boy, this curing thing is getting trickier and trickier.

Speaking of the adhesive and the ink.  I scrapped out the ink and left the screen sitting for a day or two.  Wow... what a mess.  Now I know why my buddy hates tape on the shirt side so much.

Any advice on getting that gunk out?  I used some ER2 and a pressure washer but I still have a bit left and I don't know if it will matter... looks like bad hazing.

[DouglasGrigar]

Yes, I'm using vinyl... sticking it to the bottom of the screen (shirt side).  How do you think that is causing me problems?  I'm not second guessing you, I've just read of a lot of people using it successfully... now one guy's "success" might not be equal to your's or mine, hence why I'm here.  The vinyl has a Film Thickness of 2.8 mil.  So I'm creating a gasket effect with that like emulsion would. 

Vinyl as a stencil, how things change or increase with information, this also could be a big problem.

It's true, some of these methods that are not uncommon on T-Shirt Forums and YouTube are alien to me, and I used to pride myself in helping folks use "non-traditional" diy processes.

In a way it is like having to be tech support for an inkjet printer and you start working on a problem you think you can fix and then the customer tells you he poured house-paint into the ink cartridges... distance support can often be an exercise in detecting all of the relevant information.

Frying pan to fire comes to mind.

[Frog]

This just made me remember many ongoing exchanges on TSPMB, where obviously, I posted to newbies a lot. T-Shirt forums must see this even more.
Though not rocket science, the screen printing road has bumps,  small but steepish learning curves, at various stages, for various required processes.

Some, whether by financial necessity or merely masochistic tendencies, choose to make those bumps deeper and those curves steeper,
and still, look to cut corners and/or question tried and true procedures before even trying and mastering them and judging their merits.

This is not specifically meant for you, little buddy, but true is true.

[DouglasGrigar]

This just made me remember many ongoing exchanges on TSPMB, where obviously, I posted to newbies a lot. T-Shirt forums must see this even more.
Though not rocket science, the screen printing road has bumps,  small but steepish learning curves, at various stages, for various required processes.

Some, whether by financial necessity or merely masochistic tendencies, choose to make those bumps deeper and those curves steeper,
and still, look to cut corners and/or question tried and true procedures before even trying and mastering them and judging their merits.

This is not specifically meant for you, little buddy, but true is true.

Very true, I think my point was more aimed at the problem we have providing advice or support and just not getting all the information we need to do any good for that person. We make a lot of assumptions and then from time to time we get blindsided.

As far as screens, you can take black cut vinyl film and then use it as a positive to make a photo stencil exposure, the results will be significantly improved without an excessive expenditure.

[Frog]

As far as screens, you can take black cut vinyl film and then use it as a positive to make a photo stencil exposure, the results will be significantly improved without an excessive expenditure.

This, however, is a situation where the newbie printer has access to cad cut adhesive vinyl, but apparently not emulsion, capillary film, or exposure unit, or rinse-out booth.
I have suggested looking into Ulano knife cut film, which of course, is the same basic method, but with screen print compatible materials.

[DouglasGrigar]

As far as screens, you can take black cut vinyl film and then use it as a positive to make a photo stencil exposure, the results will be significantly improved without an excessive expenditure.

This, however, is a situation where the newbie printer has access to cad cut adhesive vinyl, but apparently not emulsion, capillary film, or exposure unit, or rinse-out booth.
I have suggested looking into Ulano knife cut film, which of course, is the same basic method, but with screen print compatible materials.

Cap film or emulsion, a sink, and the sun?

You know my job is to help new people, but in the end we have to have some sort of paddle for the canoe...

Our user here wanting help, well you and I both want to help.

Gilligan, you will have to forgive me for exchanging thoughts with “the Frog," I assure you we are not exactly ignoring you or your needs.

We both agree you are in need of some alternate materials to prop up your future improvement... I was thrown for a loop with some of it...

[Gilligan]

Hey, I'm a big boy... I don't get offended that easy. 

I get it, from you guy's perspective I'm doing things the hard way.  But you guys forget how intimidating this stuff was when you first started.

Let me address something real quick Douglas... though it wasn't the best way... I had mentioned that I was using vinyl for a stencil in this thread http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php?topic=1202.0 .  I should never have assumed everyone was paying attention.  I just got so much help in there that I thought everyone was on board.  My bad.  Wasn't trying to blind side anyone, I just assumed too much myself.

Now, the reason I use vinyl is, you mentioned like 3-4 pieces of gear/processes that need to be done to use emulsion/cap film.  Each of those have a process to themselves.  First you got to prep the screen.  Then you have to coat the screen... this is intimidating in itself... though less so after I watched my buddy's guys coat a couple screens first hand.  Still I worry about 1:1 coating (I think I would rather do 2:1 *shrug* ).  Then you got to dry them (no big deal)... then you have to expose them.  I'm scientific... sun just isn't a consistent source where I am.  I want to "set it and forget it" like a rotisserie oven on tv.   So that means I need an exposure unit.  I'm getting close here because I saw where someone is successfully using a vacuum storage bag to get a tight film to mesh seal.... Oh, speaking of... I have to make sure I can output nice good dark films (and buy them and hope I get ones that work... I think I'm gonna get Fixxons for my WF1100 Pigment ink printer).  Then I have to get my exposure times right so everything washes out properly.

Ok... see when it's broken down from a newbie you can see how it seems very overwhelming and then you read that you can use sticker vinyl rather successfully for short runs (~100)... well hell.  Trust me... working the squeegee and curing has ENOUGH things to learn about.  I just needed to get my squeegee wet and get some printing going on.  Then I can start adding other parts of the puzzle together later.

Basically I am a garage printer doing this as a side gig that is looking to make it into something bigger... but as I'm coming up to that pace and learning the ropes... for me, the best thing is taking it slow and one step at a time.  Whatever gets me to stop procrastinating and get past some of the many hurdles in front of me I will take.

Let's put it this way... I bought my first screens in Feb-2010... I just printed my first job last week!  I didn't even own a squeegee or ink until a week before that!

I hope that helps you understand my timidness a little better.

[DouglasGrigar]

Hey, I'm a big boy... I don't get offended that easy. 

I get it, from you guy's perspective I'm doing things the hard way.  But you guys forget how intimidating this stuff was when you first started.

Let me address something real quick Douglas... though it wasn't the best way... I had mentioned that I was using vinyl for a stencil in this thread http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php?topic=1202.0 .  I should never have assumed everyone was paying attention.  I just got so much help in there that I thought everyone was on board.  My bad.  Wasn't trying to blind side anyone, I just assumed too much myself.

Now, the reason I use vinyl is, you mentioned like 3-4 pieces of gear/processes that need to be done to use emulsion/cap film.  Each of those have a process to themselves.  First you got to prep the screen.  Then you have to coat the screen... this is intimidating in itself... though less so after I watched my buddy's guys coat a couple screens first hand.  Still I worry about 1:1 coating (I think I would rather do 2:1 *shrug* ).  Then you got to dry them (no big deal)... then you have to expose them.  I'm scientific... sun just isn't a consistent source where I am.  I want to "set it and forget it" like a rotisserie oven on tv.   So that means I need an exposure unit.  I'm getting close here because I saw where someone is successfully using a vacuum storage bag to get a tight film to mesh seal.... Oh, speaking of... I have to make sure I can output nice good dark films (and buy them and hope I get ones that work... I think I'm gonna get Fixxons for my WF1100 Pigment ink printer).  Then I have to get my exposure times right so everything washes out properly.

Ok... see when it's broken down from a newbie you can see how it seems very overwhelming and then you read that you can use sticker vinyl rather successfully for short runs (~100)... well hell.  Trust me... working the squeegee and curing has ENOUGH things to learn about.  I just needed to get my squeegee wet and get some printing going on.  Then I can start adding other parts of the puzzle together later.

Basically I am a garage printer doing this as a side gig that is looking to make it into something bigger... but as I'm coming up to that pace and learning the ropes... for me, the best thing is taking it slow and one step at a time.  Whatever gets me to stop procrastinating and get past some of the many hurdles in front of me I will take.

Let's put it this way... I bought my first screens in Feb-2010... I just printed my first job last week!  I didn't even own a squeegee or ink until a week before that!

I hope that helps you understand my timidness a little better.

We do understand and commiserate with you, and I wish I could tell you there was even a trick or two to get you to the level you want to get to... I am afraid there is no trick except to try, read, and learn.

[mk162]

It only looks intimidating, when in actuality, it will save you more time and headaches then you are trying to avoid right now.

[Gilligan]

I agree.  I know that it is like riding a bike... all 2nd nature once you get it down.

I was talking to my buddy's shop guy and telling him how it just seems daunting from the outside.  He shared how it was tough when he first started and how much of a mess he would make (he's my buddy's best printer).  He then said... "but now it's not even something I would be proud of.  I'd feel pretty retarded if I couldn't do this as easily as I do it."

So I know it WILL be easy.  I just don't want to get discouraged with tripping up on every hurdle down the track.

Most of my problems came from no gasket (vinyl on wrong side), poor stroke technique (inconsistent to say the least), and probably mostly poor off contact.

Using vinyl as a stencil for simple designs should be just fine and I have still figured out how to push a squeegee (pushing seems easier/better)... well, enough to clear the screen at least half the time (ok, I'm pushing it   )  Plus I learned about curing (and that I NEED a conveyor   ).  Learned not to put images too close to the edge of screens as it's hard to get a good print with such uneven tension.

Now that I am more comfortable with the actual printing process... the prepress part won't cause me to lose all steam when I hit snags.  I know more hurdles are there and I'm by no means a good printer (I'm pretty bad right now)... but I was already pretty discouraged with the process because of my bad prints... if I had been fighting coating and exposure issues leading up to that experience... I might have just given up and stuck with contracting my printing out.  Now I can fight with emulsion and coating/exposing and it will just be a "fun" experiment and me trying to learn a better way to do something and not fighting the "only" way to do something.