Electrical for new equipment

[sqslabs]

I'm in the process of getting the electrical install for some new equipment quoted out, and my jaw pretty much hit the floor when I received the first one today.  I just wanted to see if this pricing was standard or if I am getting taken to the cleaners. 

I have an unused three-phase connection connected to my meter outside the building and there's a pre-existing 2" conduit running from outside into my warehouse.  So I need the cable run from the connection into the warehouse through the existing conduit, a new breaker box installed, and four lines run and dropped to a dryer, press, and two quartz flashes.  I know distance comes into play, and the dryer will be about 20' from the breaker box, and the press/flashes about 40'.  I also have high ceilings.

The quote that came in today was $8500 before any permits or tax.  I've had 220 single phase lines run across the whole shop by "not as professional" fellows for a few hundred bucks, so this threw me for a bit of a loop as I was thinking (read: hoping) that it would be less than half of the quoted amount.  I'm sure plenty of members here have been through this rodeo before, and any insight would be appreciated. 

[dirkdiggler]

yeah it sux ass!  I had the same problems and just bit the bullet and paid for it.

[Binkspot]

First how many amp is the service your pulling. Your existing conduit may not be big enough for the run from the meter pan to the new panel, this may be jacking the price a bit. Just that run including wire, panel, four 3 phase beakers, ground strap, etc I'm willing to bet somewhere in the neighbor hood of $1k alone just parts, add $700-$800 labor. You may have $500-$700 in conduit, hangers, fittings, strain reliefs and boxes. I almost died a few months ago paying $100 each for strain reliefs for drops myself. Service cord for the two drops on the flashes $15 per ft plus a few hundred in wire for them in the conduit. Keep in mind each 40' 3 phase pull is over 160' of wire, 6 ga THHN is running $0.75 per ft now.

The list gets long and the price keeps going up. In reality $8500 does not sound that bad.

[bulldog]

I would have to agree $8500 is probably in the ball park. Get another estimate though, can't hurt.

I've got a friend with a machine shop and when they moved into their new building there was no 3 phase power and they had one lathe or mill that ran on 3 phase. The quote was somewhere around 9k from the electricians, IIRC. I did some googling and came across a phase converter. Not sure if that's feasible for you. Might not even be appropriate for a screen printing press/dryer. It was like $2300 for what we needed. Maybe ask an electrician if that is an option or talk to the support at Phase-A-Matic they might be able to tell you if it is possible.

http://www.phase-a-matic.com/ is the site. I think if it is possible you'd need a rotary one. The prices on their site are list and you can find them cheaper from some distributors.

(I have no affiliation with them.)

[sqslabs]

yeah it sux ass! 

Understatement of the year! 

First how many amp is the service your pulling. Your existing conduit may not be big enough for the run from the meter pan to the new panel, this may be jacking the price a bit. Just that run including wire, panel, four 3 phase beakers, ground strap, etc I'm willing to bet somewhere in the neighbor hood of $1k alone just parts, add $700-$800 labor. You may have $500-$700 in conduit, hangers, fittings, strain reliefs and boxes. I almost died a few months ago paying $100 each for strain reliefs for drops myself. Service cord for the two drops on the flashes $15 per ft plus a few hundred in wire for them in the conduit. Keep in mind each 40' 3 phase pull is over 160' of wire, 6 ga THHN is running $0.75 per ft now.

They are pulling 200A from the meter, and said they will be able to use the existing conduit to do so. They quoted $2600 for that run and the new breaker box, and $5800 for everything from the breaker box to the equipment.  I did have them quote cord drops to each piece of equipment, which is probably only necessary for the flashes.  Maybe that'll help a bit, but man it still hurts.   

   

[screenprintguy]

Brett my dad was a general contractor down there for 40 years. I have several electrical contractors with solid reputations if you need a contact, let me know.

[sqslabs]

I would have to agree $8500 is probably in the ball park. Get another estimate though, can't hurt.

I've got a friend with a machine shop and when they moved into their new building there was no 3 phase power and they had one lathe or mill that ran on 3 phase. The quote was somewhere around 9k from the electricians, IIRC. I did some googling and came across a phase converter. Not sure if that's feasible for you. Might not even be appropriate for a screen printing press/dryer. It was like $2300 for what we needed. Maybe ask an electrician if that is an option or talk to the support at Phase-A-Matic they might be able to tell you if it is possible.

Thanks for the link, but my single phase box is already tapped out so the converter wouldn't be an option, and I think I'd need the cable run to the machines either way.  I'll definitely be getting a few more estimates before pulling the trigger though. Fingers crossed there's an electrician out there who really needs new shirts.

[sqslabs]

Brett my dad was a general contractor down there for 40 years. I have several electrical contractors with solid reputations if you need a contact, let me know.

That would be great, thanks Mike!

[screenprintguy]

Ill email you in the am

[TCT]

That is high for what we would pay up here. If I wasn't so damn busy now I'd head your way and we could knock it out ourselves!
Get some more quotes. If you have time write up what you need with measurements and amperage draws, and you can email some contractors for rough estimates.

What kind and size disconnects do you need? You are going to think I'm crazy, but my basement that I said held all sorts of treasures, well I got maybe 5 unused disconnects sitting on a pallet(I am not a hoarder, but I am a sucker for a deal). If I have any you can use, I'll add them to your shipment!

[sqslabs]

That is high for what we would pay up here. If I wasn't so damn busy now I'd head your way and we could knock it out ourselves!
Get some more quotes. If you have time write up what you need with measurements and amperage draws, and you can email some contractors for rough estimates.

What kind and size disconnects do you need? You are going to think I'm crazy, but my basement that I said held all sorts of treasures, well I got maybe 5 unused disconnects sitting on a pallet(I am not a hoarder, but I am a sucker for a deal). If I have any you can use, I'll add them to your shipment!

Man I'd be scared sh1tless to touch anything having to do with 3-phase haha, thanks though man.  Yeah I really need to get a schematic together now that I have a better idea of what I'm going to need and send it out to a few more places.  The more quotes the merrier, as long as they are less than the one I currently have.

Will let you know on the disconnects, that would be awesome.  Best pallet ever! 

[sweetts]

If you can do it, run the conduit yourself and pull in the wire, let the electrician wire up the ends so it's legal in your area. That's all labor costs your paying and really the work is mindless grunt work. It really is very easy todo don't  hook up to the meter and there is no risks. I would run it myself and save $$$.

[ericheartsu]

If you can do it, run the conduit yourself and pull in the wire, let the electrician wire up the ends so it's legal in your area. That's all labor costs your paying and really the work is mindless grunt work. It really is very easy todo don't  hook up to the meter and there is no risks. I would run it myself and save $$$.

this is what we are going to do with some stuff in our shop when we get new equipment. I've taught myself how to do alot of electrical stuff which is pretty awesome, but when it's the big expensive machinery, I'm going to hire an electrician to hook up the ends, while i run the rest of it.

Also if you do buy your own supplies, we've found that we save alot more $ by buying from an electrical store, as opposed to a lowes or home depot.

[TCT]

A few thoughts, not saying they are good ones-

Sometimes buying your own wire and fixtures doesn't sit well with some electricians(think about the guy that wants 50 shirts but is going to bring his own). This isn't the case with all electricians though. Just be blunt and explain you understand why some electricians would rather not work that way. You can find some that are OK with it.

A lot of times at least up here, your fixtures and specialty connectors can be cheaper at a electrical contractor supply store, you may have a hard time buying from them though. Wire for the most part is pretty close in price since it is closely tied to copper pricing. If you find that it is not overpriced at say Lowes or Home Depot, you could but it there. One advantage of buying it at a place like that is they ALWAYS have a 12/18/24 month 0% financing option. You would have another monthly payment, but at 0% it would help defray the up front cost. ALSO Lowes has a "new movers" 10% off coupon you get online. Google it. Once you sign up for it it usually takes 2 days or so for them to email it to you. F.Y.I. Home Depot honors Lowes coupons. If you can't find the coupon online PM me.

Sounds like Mike has a good hook up for you with some resources. Since you don't necessarily need the job done in the next 6 days, you may be able to get a better deal if you find a guy that will let you buy and pull your own wires. Also if it works for you, let them know if you are available during evenings and weekends. Then they can take their regular jobs during the day and yours would just be the icing on the cake....

I'll give you what disconnects I have, but craigslist sometimes has good deals on them as well. There are online auction companies(k-bid.com) up here that clear places out when they close or upgrade or whatever. That is where I got my pallets of disconnects. $45 for 2 pallets of disconnects and 2 main panels. If you know what you need or can use this can be a great deal! There have to be similar online auction places down your way...

[sqslabs]

Hadn't thought about running the conduit myself, but will definitely see if that's an option with anyone I get a quote from.  Almost every electric job I've had done before, the guy had me purchase all the materials, but these were smaller side jobs and nothing done with a permit.

Great idea on the auction sites, Alex.  I've already found a few in my area and will be keeping an eye on them.