Let's talk dip tanks...

[alan802]

I really liked the Gem-zyme as well.  We are using a concentrate with the number 500 and I can't recall if it's from CCI, ICC, or easiway because the last gallon we got came in an unmarked container since the original container had a leak.  Kevin, if you're watching this, what are we using right now in our dip tank?

[sqslabs]

we had great luck with genzyme, until recently. We switched back to easistrip, and have had no issues since switching!

What issues did you run into with Gem-zyme?

[Orion]

A link to a 2004 article discusses the pros and cons of "dipping":

http://www.screenweb.com/content/the-great-dip-tank-debate

We use a dip tank for ER, ink removal is done in a Screen Systems automatic re-circ unit.

[bulldog]

That article made me think about something else. Has anyone ever gotten the dip tank solution in their frames?

I'm moving more and more to Newmans and I know a lot of people here use them. I've yet to dip any so I'm curious if they're more problematic?

I've had some of my statics fill up...must be a pinhole in the weld or something. I throw it in my cabinet with the dehumidifier until I don't hear water sloshing around anymore.

Any other tips or ideas?

[Inkworks]

Funny, we're using easiway Supra and 701 too, but like Alan says it just doesn't really do anything to the plastisol, it's just the emulsion coming off with the pressure washer that removes the plastisol.

If we need to remove the plastisol with an inkwash first, then the diptank just becomes a really expensive emulsion remover application tool, and it's debatable if it's really worth the cost for us as we aren't running screens every day. Chemical costs per screen are definitely higher than spray and brush.

Right now the extra clean-up of the wash tank and frames probably negate any time savings we get. It's definitely not getting the screens any cleaner than what we were doing before.

Once this chemical gets weak, we'll probably switch it over to a developing pre-soak tank and go back to doing the screens the old way.

[mimosatexas]

I have about 5 screens with cracked welds or even a cut in the side (random used frames have all kinds of weird crap like that) that fill up in my tanks.  I just mark the offending corner (always seems to be in a corner) and have them drain angled with that corner down.  Never been an issue.

I have actually debated drilling a hole in each corner of each frame so I don't need a hold down and just draining all of them the same way, but haven't done it yet.  Not really sure if there would be a downside.

I can't believe you arent seeing a significant time savings Inkworks, especially on thick stencils or hardened screens (if you use them).  It takes me about 30 seconds to pressure wash down the ink goop off the walls of my booth at the end of a long reclaiming session, but honestly I don't even do that every time.  I clear the screen and card off everything I can get quickly prior to de-taping and dipping though, so really there isn't much ink getting blasted off.

[Inkworks]

We used to reclaim in a stack of 10-16, put the first frame down flat squeegee side up, spray ink degradent, quick brush, flip it over and repeat. next frame goes squeegee side down to start, spray, brush, flip repeat. At the end you have a stack of screens all clamshelled so the wet sides are together and help keep everything from drying and lets the chemical work.

Off to the spraybooth 1 at a time, just a hose with a garden nozzle for the ink degradent, maybe 20-30 seconds each.

then the same with emulsion remover, once you have a stack 10-16 high the ER has had time to work, we mix it strong anyways, so it falls out easily with a quickpressure wash.

then dehaze or the like, pressure rinse with extra care to get it really clean. In all honesty maybe the 701 is the best thing to come out of the diptank experiment as it could be done right after emuslion removal and save us 1 screen handle per reclaim.

maybe it's because we are doing 1 operation at a time to a whole stack of screens that we are pretty much as fast as using a diptank. If we aren't switching operations between each step on each screen, it goes pretty fast. maybe I'll get my guy to do 10 each way and get a time for both. Even if the old way is 10% slower I'd call it better as it uses quite a bit less chemical, and leaves the screen and wash-out booth pretty much spotless.

[KevWilso]

I really liked the Gem-zyme as well.  We are using a concentrate with the number 500 and I can't recall if it's from CCI, ICC, or easiway because the last gallon we got came in an unmarked container since the original container had a leak.  Kevin, if you're watching this, what are we using right now in our dip tank?

You are using the Easiway 500 concentrate.  This is just a really strong concentrated liquid emulsion remover.  It can be diluted 30:1  water:ER.  We have a bunch of shops that dump a couple of these in 55 gallon drums and fill them up with water and use with a spray application and brushing.   If you are doing the dip tank method like you are; you may not want to dilute it as much so you can turn your screens faster.

[abchung]

Is a dip tank more efficient than the guy in the youtube clip?
Also another concern is the amount of chemical he is using, will it cost more than a dip tank?

ICC Stacking Method

[TCT]

I have actually debated drilling a hole in each corner of each frame so I don't need a hold down and just draining all of them the same way, but haven't done it yet.  Not really sure if there would be a downside.

We have done this for years on our statics, no issues. Drill the holes on opposing diagonal corners. Only real draw back is waiting for the screens to drain. We let one drain while cleaning one. That way it is reddy to go when you are done cleaning the one in the sink.

[Binkspot]

I may be wrong but that looks like An old video of Greg' (Mindseye) shop.

[Inkworks]

Is a dip tank more efficient than the guy in the youtube clip?
Also another concern is the amount of chemical he is using, will it cost more than a dip tank?

In my opinion a dip tank uses much more chemical.

[mimosatexas]

I can absolutely reclaim faster than the guy in that video using my dip tank.  Each screen takes the same amount of time roughly as JUST the step where he puts it in the booth, pressure washes, degreases, rinses, and racks.  The whole first part is not needed and the equivalent step is the 2 seconds it takes to put it in the dip tank and the 2 seconds it takes to pull it out, and a lot less scrubbing on my part.

I also feel like he is doing a whole lot of moving the screens around, which only invites a screen to hit a corner of another and pop eventually.  He is really dumping on the chems too.  I dunno, not that impressed I guess. 

I think I have seen a savings in both 701 used and ER used.  My tank cost $180 to fill up I believe, while a gallon of ER is around 50.  I was going through a gallon of ER a month or so, while my tank has lasted me 6 months.  I would have to look through my receipts to give exact numbers.

[DannyGruninger]

I know of a few large volume shops doing several hundred screens a day using the stacking method. It's something I've wanted to try for a while but I don't have the space to properly setup for that method. For us its dip tank for emulsion removal only. Until I can get my volume up enough for an automated system dip tank is the way to go though imo.

[Stinkhorn Press]

We've always used Safety-Kleen parts washer to degrade the ink, cleans the screens fast.
Besides the COST,  bad part of that is - the solution isn't good for mesh longevity, get some bad image burn in.

The GOOD part of safety kleen is NO PLASTISOL DOWN A DRAIN.
Breaking it down and pouring into your local septic system, that can't be good can it??? I'm no saint - I have no compunction about putting the emulsion/emulsion remover/dehazer/degreaser/etc down the drain, but these things can't be good for a septic system either?

We don't use a dip tank to remove emulsion (yet) - but the general consensus seems to be cci/easiway 2 in 1 solutions seem to work good enough for most users. I would think alan's system of de-inking as an extra step before dipping would possibly have improved results, but at a time cost. I think Inkworks has a point that the non-dip tank way isn't that much slower (we don't really "scrub" the ER in - just up the concentration a bit and effectively be a human dip tank, just get it wet and wait 3 minutes - good to go).
This is all very helpful discussion for someone looking to switch to a better system than what we have.