Making the switch to MHM

[mk162]

i feel this industry is dogged by a lack of sales/service on the equipment end from most vendors and that is why M&R dominates the US market.

[screenprintguy]

Thanks for the input.  I guess the good news for MHM owners is that the machines don't break down much.

Right, don't get me wrong, I feel from what I've seen and heard from owners, the machines are totally awesome. Personally though, I'm scared to get into such a techy piece of gear that is serviced by a company with a shaky record and that has only 1 or 2 service techs in the entire country. Anything can happen, it's not always the fault of a machine, but mainly operator error that causes breakdowns. I think though, any company is going to be a day or two before they could get a tech to you, any company, and then whether parts are available and can get to you is a whole different ball game.

[cbjamel]

I sell to company that was US owned, they had agreement to not go into Europe if the people in Europe wouldn't come into North America. Well the Europe company bought the other. They tried to train the US and Canada based sale people. Its basically a heavy piece of equipment used in winter. They were trying to sell to people in 3-pc Italian suites didn't work. So our people had to show them how we sell, in Carhartts and jeans etc.. They would stand there and do nothing our guy's we up on it say what can be modified for each location etc..

Different countries different mentalities of selling.

I prefer US, I myself have had multiple calls and talk with Rich Hoffman the owner of M&R.  In person and on the phone.
I love that the owner is that involved daily.

Shane

[Sbrem]

Pretty much what I thought, great machines, bad vendor. We bought ours before Hirsch took over. For service, we know some techs around who are pretty sharp, and the guy at Machine Solutions, Galen? (my partner usually talks to him), knows them pretty well, and has helped us. But for someone without the connections, working with Hirsch may not sound  like a lot of fun.

Steve

[Screened Gear]

Since I have a MHM I will put in my 2 cents.

I wanted a MHM after looking at all the presses for 2 years at ISS long beach. 



Why I like MHM presses (in no particular order)

The operation system on the MHM  is easy to use. Compared to the other presses its like a Mac vs a PC (an old pc).

Waterbase ink changes are easy. Pop out the screen. wash out the ink in the washout booth and back to the press, goes right back into place.

Screen breaks down on press - burn new screen with the FPU and it goes right back into the exact place the old screen was.

You can do fine registration changes while the press is running shirts. No locking of the micros no jumping of the screen when you lock them down.

Auto lock and unlocking of the pallets. This saves tons of time when re-positioning the boards. There is also no handles, leavers or anything under the boards to get shirts caught on while loading.

Uses very little air, I have a cheap compressor that I bought just to get the press up and running and it does such a good job keeping up with the press and not running very much I have no need to get a better/quieter one.

No leveling of pallets needed. Not sure what this means. I have only had an MHM and I have never re-leveled the pallets in over 2.5 years. All my prints still come out great. The way the squeegees and flood bars attach they self level to the pallets.

Great customer service experiences. I have never had a problem with Hirsch. Rodney and Gavin Kidd are amazing. Every time I call Hirsch they call me back within and hour. I have had my press registered and had a new registration pin put in. There was some waiting on that but If I wanted to pay more I could have had that done a lot faster. The way I had it done with Gavin and Rodney helping, it was cheap and my press has run perfect ever since.


Here is some videos of my MHM

AUTO WARS 1 - Micro Registration
http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,2830.0.html

AUTO WARS 2 - Screen Holders
http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,2868.0.html

AUTO WARS 3 - Squeegees & Flood Bars
http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,2914.0.html

AUTO WARS 4 - Pallets
http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,3018.0.html

[alan802]

I think it's pretty much a travesty.  Let's not beat around the bush, the MHM machines themselves are the total package.  Pound for pound there isn't anything better.  Other's can compete but nothing actually beats an MHM.  If you have the lower end MHM up against any comparably priced machine and you only made the choice based on the machine then I doubt many would choose against the MHM.  So why isn't the MHM the preferred press in the US?  SERVICE and SUPPORT.  If they did those two things half as good as the king of this industry then holy crap, things would be totally different.  I haven't got quotes on an MHM machine in years but I'd love to know what the Extreme goes for with a 10 color.  If it's comparable to other mid range presses like an RPM Revolution or Sporty EXG I'd be surprised.  Something tells me a 10 color is around the 100K mark which puts it out of range for the average one auto shop.  Then if you put in the rest of the equation and you don't feel that you get treated properly or once you buy a press and can't get service then what would be the benefit to buying one?  Expensive and poor support for a press doesn't work for any of us.  Cheap and no support, obviously there are a few manufacturers that make a living with those standards and high priced with great support get's a lot of love here too.

I'd buy an MHM in a heartbeat if I felt comfortable with the after-sale support.  I love the machines, and I know others would too but without decent customer service and support they'll never be anything more than an afterthought for most of us. 

[blue moon]

I will second Rodney's service and support. He is the guy I was talking about. With his help the problems are usually fixed in less than an hour over the phone. Our press was down once in last five years and he had us the replacement parts at the shop next day (saturday morning). This was a combination of parts so we had the right one to fix the problem and we could send the rest back. So lost production time was one afternoon and maybe a total of 6-8 hours for little repairs since we bought it (in 2009).  An example of the problems we had was the On/Off switch (for the computer module, not the main power) that broke and he had us go inside the panel and rewire it out until we get the replacement.

As with any other press, a lot of it can be done with guidance over the phone, but there has to be somebody by the press that's comfortable with a screwdriver and wrenches.

pierre

[GraphicDisorder]

I think it's pretty much a travesty.  Let's not beat around the bush, the MHM machines themselves are the total package.  Pound for pound there isn't anything better.  Other's can compete but nothing actually beats an MHM.  If you have the lower end MHM up against any comparably priced machine and you only made the choice based on the machine then I doubt many would choose against the MHM.  So why isn't the MHM the preferred press in the US?  SERVICE and SUPPORT.  If they did those two things half as good as the king of this industry then holy crap, things would be totally different.  I haven't got quotes on an MHM machine in years but I'd love to know what the Extreme goes for with a 10 color.  If it's comparable to other mid range presses like an RPM Revolution or Sporty EXG I'd be surprised.  Something tells me a 10 color is around the 100K mark which puts it out of range for the average one auto shop.  Then if you put in the rest of the equation and you don't feel that you get treated properly or once you buy a press and can't get service then what would be the benefit to buying one?  Expensive and poor support for a press doesn't work for any of us.  Cheap and no support, obviously there are a few manufacturers that make a living with those standards and high priced with great support get's a lot of love here too.

I'd buy an MHM in a heartbeat if I felt comfortable with the after-sale support.  I love the machines, and I know others would too but without decent customer service and support they'll never be anything more than an afterthought for most of us.

Pretty much dead on. 

[ZooCity]

What's the difference between the X-type plus and the S-Type Extreme?  Looks like the X-type is now the entry level model then the S-type or do I have that backwards?

[alan802]

What's the difference between the X-type plus and the S-Type Extreme?  Looks like the X-type is now the entry level model then the S-type or do I have that backwards?

I think you have that right but I seem to remember another press that came out a year or so ago that doesn't exist by that name anymore. 

[screenprintguy]

Alan, I know when we got our quotes, the best quote we were offered , and this was on a new E-Type, was an 8 color 50K shipped and installed. I think, the 10 co E-type they quoted around 70K shipped and installed. If I remember, in there was 30 newmans and their film positioning unit. So at the time, not knowing what we know now, and not having the funds, we went with the DB 9 color to be able to print 8 colors. Now, those prices here, people may have gotten better deals, I don't know, but that's what I can remember. I'm sure I have the sheets somewhere. Thats a few computers and several hard drives ago, lol. At any rate, they are obviously sweet sweet pieces of gear. Just a tid bit scary buying a high dollar piece of tech that you are going to train people to use that could break it and you may be on your own to fix it because the folks who are supposed to support it really don't do a great job in the support area. Maybe they have gotten better, I don't know. But I can say the way that dude talked to my wife and I, it would be tough to get her to sign off no matter how awesome something is lol.

[blue moon]

What's the difference between the X-type plus and the S-Type Extreme?  Looks like the X-type is now the entry level model then the S-type or do I have that backwards?

X-type replaces the E-type. It is an improved version with many parts and systems from the S-Type. There is an entry level press in the works that will be air driven and should be half price of the other presses. They are finally looking into an entry level auto. Pictures of the prototype are on the interweb already. . .

While for a first auto S-type might be too much money, I would tell the prospective buyer to beg, cheat and steal so they can skip the lower level presses. Not that they are so bad, but the S-Type is that much better. It really is a benchmark ALL other presses should be measured against. (Yes, yes, I know, many would disagree with me or do not believe me, but hey it's my story and I'm sticking to it!)

pierre

[alan802]

8 color E-type for 50K would have been hard to pass up.  And if it came with 30 newmans and the regi system...nice.  Now a 10 color E at $70K is also a decent deal in my opinion and the accessories with it make it about the best bang for the buck you could get.  Our RPM was somewhat close to that and there are a few things on the E-type that I'd say are better than the RPM and a few things on the RPM that are better but overall a very comparable machine.

If that X-type is $75-80K for a 10 color then that is a lot of press for the money.  But if you feel alone the first time a part goes bad then it's really not much of a deal at all.  Like I said, a travesty.  I am critical of another company that has come really close to having a complete product but they fail in the social area badly and fall just barely short with the machines and the MHM problem resembles that.  Because nothing has changed over the years I really wonder if the European guys know exactly what the problems are over here?  If they know yet do nothing about it then they are just as guilty. 

Man, looking at those auto wars videos again...MHM has the machine aspect figured out.   

[TCT]

Here is the pic of the one Pierre was mentioning....




Apparently it is supposed to compete with the Diamondback(pricewise).... I don't think they are going to offer it in a pneumatic index, and like Pierre said the standard heads it comes with are air, but maybe the option to upgrade. But the thing that REALLY gets me on this is, it doesn't look like it works with the MHM pre reg system! I do not know that for a fact, but if they made it and it did not work with the MHM pre reg system I think that is a very poor move...

@Alan I don't know this for 100% but the impression I got from the MHM guys in Europe was that Hirsch was doing a good job, they have a lot to deal with but that they are doing well none the less
The quote I got close to two years ago for a X-Type 12/10 was roughly $85k. FOB SC and that was not with install or anything extra....

[ebscreen]

Check your first pic, see that big toothed area near the bottom of the pallet carousel?
Looks like belt drive to me. More and more that seems to be the way to index a machine.

I see holes in the screen holders that would correspond to where the screen frame pins/bushings
would be. I'd be very surprised if they didn't make it compatible with the FPU. My guess is they are going
for compatibility with both pinned and non pinned frames. Lord knows the thought of having pins on all
my screens scared the beejeesus out of me at first, now I wouldn't have it any other way.