Set-up Times

[Ryan]

I've been thinking and having some discussions (outside of here) about set-up times and pre-reg systems and what they are good for. That being said what is the average time it takes for you to set-up say a 6 color job on the auto using your registration system? more specifically the guys who still use film because I know CTS guys will be much faster though that may give the rest of us a reference to how much time we could be saving. So How many screens in that 6 color would need to be adjusted? average time per color it might take you to get it in? I'm not necessarily looking for concrete numbers, unless of course you have them, but if on average does it take you 20 minutes using your tri-loc or your pin system or T-Square? So if anyone wants to give out the info on time, system used, average screens needed to be microed etc, it would help me out on some questions I certainly have.
~Ryan

[tonypep]

No CTS and no Tri lock here. Pure set up (not including approval time etc) 30 min 2 people, 45 min 1 person. Thats for It certainly be done faster but thats about average in real time. I always train people to drop the table and raise it twice and chk reg even with a tri-lock. This simple step saves a lot of time micro-ing and test printing. Its amazing how many people do not perform this simple step.

[Screened Gear]

I've been thinking and having some discussions (outside of here) about set-up times and pre-reg systems and what they are good for. That being said what is the average time it takes for you to set-up say a 6 color job on the auto using your registration system? more specifically the guys who still use film because I know CTS guys will be much faster though that may give the rest of us a reference to how much time we could be saving. So How many screens in that 6 color would need to be adjusted? average time per color it might take you to get it in? I'm not necessarily looking for concrete numbers, unless of course you have them, but if on average does it take you 20 minutes using your tri-loc or your pin system or T-Square? So if anyone wants to give out the info on time, system used, average screens needed to be microed etc, it would help me out on some questions I certainly have.
~Ryan

My numbers will be slower than most since its just me doing all the work.

From burnt screens ready to go on press to ready to print is 2 to 5 mins per head. Most of that time is getting the inks and squeegee and floods in. I usually have to clean squeegees and flood bars. With the MHM FPU if its not dead on, its just a few very slight adjustments that takes no time at all. Each screen takes less than 5 seconds to pop in and have aligned. If I had all the floods and screens clean I could do a head in less then a minute. Then maybe 2 test prints to make sure everything is set. I normally never do more than 1 or 2 test prints to set up any job. Unless I need to build up wet on wet.  I do have jobs go bad but that was when I was learning the press and how to print on it. I may have a bad job every 2 months now.

The one thing I like about the MHM system is I can take out screens and put them back in and the screen will be in the exact same position. I use this when doing waterbase ink changes. Take the screen out and spray it out at the washout booth. Then put it back in the press and load your new color. It was also really nice when I had a screen fail on a 6 color job. I burnt a new screen and then put it in. It was perfectly aligned. Took me about 15 mins to be back up and running. (screens dry fast here)

[ebscreen]

Folks will have you believe all sorts of ridiculous times. Tony's about right as usual.

Jon, get you a Shurloc Squeegee Clean.  I realized that one of our biggest bottlenecks was waiting for clean squeegees/floods.
Not no more it aint.

[tonypep]

For the two person scenario the unloader or dryer op follows the press op with ink, squeegees etc which have been pre-staged on a cart. This speeds things up quite a bit especially on 14 or 16 color presses. Most know I have a tic about not having all the parts and pieces staged and ready in a timely fashion. Whats the point of registering in under 60 secs if you have to wait around for garments etc?

[inkman996]

Plain and simple our tri-lock only saves us any time on the registration part of set up. It cannot speed up squeegee and FB installs or speed up taping the screens etc. But I will say registration itself which of course is what it is designed to do is super fast. Slide the screen against the stop blocks engage screen clamps, make sure nothing moved and move on to the nest one is pretty fast and straight forward. Using a six color as your example I would say maybe two of the screens would need a tiny micro adjustment, adjustments that would not need a reprint just make the adjustments and start the run.

I feel I am pretty damn fast registering screens by eye so the tri-loc has not gained me personally any major amount of time but anyone else they struggle registering by eye and eat up time like a black hole.

Having the tri-loc is not only great for dummy proofing registration but also the ability to swap screens etc. I would never want to be with out it thats for sure.

[Ryan]

Using your tri-loc or FPU, when you go to press are they mostly lined up? On this hypothetical 6 color, how many screens would you expect micro in? I'm not sure if I have higher expectations  then I should on mine. I believe that if I set up a 6 color, assuming I am taking my time on the Reg table taping films, that 4 of those screens should need no microing at all and the other 2 only millimeters/centimeters/smidge microing to get them in. which I think the job should be set-up in under 18 minutes ( 1 minute to line up screen, 2 minutes to put in squeegee/mink/floods) and to be honest I think that is too much time if your system is designed to do what it is supposed to do. Are my expectations too high in this scenario? Are you using your reg system to "just be close" and then micro from there? or do you expect it to be 70-80-90% in right from the start?

~Ryan

[Socalfmf]

on thing that has saved us a ton of time is to preink the screens.  we have a rolling rack right by the press and we put the screens with ink in there ready for the next job.  we invested in the shur-loc squeegie cleaner and we have two full sets of floodbars and squeegies so we always have clean ones.  We use a dts and tri-loc.  we might have to adjust 1 color but usually we are dead on.

the key to the game is to keep set up/take down to a minimum....

sam

[Screened Gear]

All the systems are made to be perfect. Now put user error in to the equation and there will be some needed tweaking. I get the film lined up as best as I can. One trick is you want your reg marks as far away from each other as possible with your film. Its like the sights on a gun the farther away they are the more accurate.  Honestly I have about 75% of my jobs that are good enough to run as is. But I still tweak them a little during the run to dial them in even more.

So to answer your question. Out of the 25% of my jobs that are not perfect I usually have to micro one or 2 screens to get it perfect. Even the ones that are out of registration they are only out a very small about. Mostly an underbase peaking out or two touching colors have a slight gutter. Its not just the screens and registration that will make screens be out. Screen tensions, pressure, ink viscosity, squeegees and even print speed can pull the screen mesh enough to be out a hair. Keep in mind how little I am talking. I never have a screen out a 1/16 of an inch. Unless I didn't reset a head that I was messing with.

[jsheridan]

the key to the game is to keep set up/take down to a minimum....

not really the key, more like a component of the entire process. 
The key is understanding that setup/down is just another part of the entire process and needs to be accounted for in the 'all inclusive' job pricing.

[alan802]

We spend way more time putting squeegees and floodbars and ink in screens versus registering the job.  On a six color job on average there will be one screen that is out by a hair (literally a human hair).  There have been numerous times where we don't touch the micros on anything but on average I'd say 1 screen out of every 5 screens put on the press needs micro'd.  I will say that the average 6 color that doesn't require a lot of "dialing in" of the print settings would be 20-25 minutes and that includes everything.  Grabbing a test print tube and putting it on the press, staring at the print looking for issues or pinholes, micro'ing a screen or maybe even 2 or 3, taping up regi marks takes 3 minutes on a 6 color, changing print speeds and pressures, checking for proper flood/fill, ALL of that stuff takes time.  A few weeks ago I printed the whole week and I didn't do more than 3 test prints for any of the 30 or so jobs we did.  Those numbers are for me, no help.  If we're really slammed I'll go back to the press and help and that would knock the setup times down to 15 minutes.

I remember back in the pre preregistration days and we always did the repeat job that was 6 colors on darks and the first year, printing the job at least once a month, we got it from 90 minutes down to about 60.  Then with the new press, several different versions of a regi system, then the triloc, and finally the modified triloc minus carrier sheets, that job takes us 20 minutes today.  We don't print that job very often anymore but it still comes along a few times per year.  I can also remember when our old press wasn't calibrated and I'd do 15-20 test prints on a 6 color job, man that really sucked.

[Screened Gear]

the key to the game is to keep set up/take down to a minimum....

not really the key, more like a component of the entire process. 
The key is understanding that setup/down is just another part of the entire process and needs to be accounted for in the 'all inclusive' job pricing.

The key to every job is Money. Go ahead disagree with me, anyone, anyone???

[Ryan]

even with all the systems everyone uses, even if needing microing, 1/16th of inch or less (even a 1/16th would seem way out...in theory). So knowing that I register on a PRU with laser crosshairs and go to press with a "zeroed" out press, 1/8th of an inch is absurd? Would that be fair to say and that something doesn't add up???

[TCT]

even with all the systems everyone uses, even if needing microing, 1/16th of inch or less (even a 1/16th would seem way out...in theory). So knowing that I register on a PRU with laser crosshairs and go to press with a "zeroed" out press, 1/8th of an inch is absurd? Would that be fair to say and that something doesn't add up???

Hey man, I know we have talked about this and it just doesn't make sense. I am pressed for time right now but one thought I had was, what are you printing your films with?

[mimosatexas]

I don't really have much of a prereg or on press reg unit of any kind, and I would say I only have to micro once ink is on the screen maybe one out of every 4 screens recently.  I have 3 points of contact glued to the glass on my exposure unit and tape my films directly to the glass.  I use one top and one bottom reg mark on my films.  I place a screen on the glass and push it against these three points, expose and take it off.  While it sits in the dunk tank I put another film on top of the one already taped and line up the reg marks and tape it, then pull out the first film.  This way they are pixel perfect to each other in relation to the points on my glass.  Put the next screen in and burn.

On press I have a film with just those same reg marks printed on it that I tape to the pallet (or just put on the pallet if the adhesive is sticky enough.  I put the screen on press, line up the reg marks by visually and push down to verify, clamp in and raise and lower the arm, and verify nothing moved, if it is a bit off I micro quickly and move on to the next screen.  Before ink ever touches a screen I verify one last time all the way around, then tape, then ink, then test print.  I am setting up six colors from the time I put the first screen on press to the time I am done test printing in about 20 minutes, though I have done some as quick as 10.  This is on a manual though, so I save a lot of time not having to put in flood and squeegee bars, etc.  I'm not sure I would speed anything up much with a triloc except the few seconds it takes to get the screen in the general area of being registered before clamping down, but making minor nudges/microing is so quick...