Hardener... 2/21

[DCSP John]

Hi Everyone...

We do alot of discharge/waterbase, with great success.
We've  never used hardener. A post exposure is really all we need, even for larger runs.
Our go to is Murakami PhotoCure Blue. Has been a great multi purpose emulsion for us.

We have some monster WB jobs on deck, and I am inclined to add hardener to the screen process.
Any one care to throw a bone on how to apply, or, actually, how hardener is used properly?

Thanks.  John

[tonypep]

Since you're using Murakami go to them for correct product. We apply with sponge and let air dry no fans. Not a fan of Photopols for DC though

[Homer]

watch this 6 part series on M&R's youtube channel if interested, Mark speaks about applying the hardener after exposure while the screen is still wet....

Part 4 of 6 - Waterbased PVC-Free Alternatives - Inks/Ink Prep

[Colin]

Hardener after exposure is awesome, if you do not need to post expose.

My experience with hardening first, then post exposing resulted in the screen sticking to the glass of my exposure unit (MSP 3140).  Not.  Fun.  Times.

Your results may vary.

[mimosatexas]

I expose fully (no scum, no stickiness or residue when rubbing fingers across the stencil after washout and about a minute and a half dunk), fan dry, post expose for twice exposure time (or more if i get distracted), apply hardener and fan dry again.  No issues with breakdown on the runs Ido up into multiple hundreds.  I use Aquasol HVP, coated 1/1 on 160 normal mesh (typically) for discharge runs, though I have started incorporating higher S mesh screens and have been getting even better results when it comes to detail, drying in times, and penetration.

What is the benefit of air drying the hardener?

[Parker 1]

We use CCI WR-14 and CCI hardener X. 
Expose, washout image, blot dry and then apply the hardener while the emulsion is still wet.  Let air dry tape off and go to press no post exposure.  The way I understand it is by applying the hardener to a wet/damp screen.  The emulsion absorbs the hardener like a sponge and allows it to penetrate vs. standing on top and evaporating off an already dry screen.  Mark, I think mentions this in the videos posted by Homer, but they lock there screens with hardener.  They reclaim with a razor blade, cut the mesh out and re stretch with new mesh. 

[Homer]

We use CCI WR-14 and CCI hardener X. 
Expose, washout image, blot dry and then apply the hardener while the emulsion is still wet.  Let air dry tape off and go to press no post exposure.  The way I understand it is by applying the hardener to a wet/damp screen.  The emulsion absorbs the hardener like a sponge and allows it to penetrate vs. standing on top and evaporating off an already dry screen.  Mark, I think mentions this in the videos posted by Homer, but they lock there screens with hardener.  They reclaim with a razor blade, cut the mesh out and re stretch with new mesh.

ahh, I may have missed that part...I'll have to watch it again. I was reading an article the other day on post exposure. Simply saying the only reason people post expose is to cure the emulsion they used as block out. Since you already exposed the screen and got it wet while developing -the diazo left on the screen simply goes down the drain making post exposure completely useless... thoughts?

[Admiral]

I'm aware of that application method and it seems like it would work great but hasn't been necessary at all.  We've done over 3k prints on a water based discharge screen just used the MS hardener and still reclaimed it later.  If I was doing 5k+ I think I would go ahead and do that method but if it's not necessary it would only make reclaim more difficult.

[mimosatexas]

I can't see the point of the razor blade unless they are using the AB or permanent hardener.  MS reclaims like normal emulsion.

My theory on applying the hardener when the screen is dry is the emulsion WANTS water to reach equilibrium with ambient humidity, so if you coat it while dry it will absorb it.  A wet screen is trying to get rid of water to reach equilibrium, not absorb more.  I believe the law of nature is actually called Moisture Equilibrium or has some other similar name.

[tonypep]

watch this 6 part series on M&R's youtube channel if interested, Mark speaks about applying the hardener after exposure while the screen is still wet....
Part 4 of 6 - Waterbased PVC-Free Alternatives - Inks/Ink Prep

I have a great story on this guy. Lot of theatre. If you watch a few times you realize you're learning nothing

[DCSP John]

Thanks for the great feedback. Very much appreciated.

Looks like screen hardener is an elusive animal.
My local supplier says no, and so do the other eight places I've called.

On the off chance that anyone here knows of an easy coast supplier of a non -permanent screen hardener, please share the vendor.
I can order thru my local vendor in order to get Murakami specific product, but I was hoping to have something in hand next week.
California is a long ship..

Thanks.  John

[Printficient]

Thanks for the great feedback. Very much appreciated.

Looks like screen hardener is an elusive animal.
My local supplier says no, and so do the other eight places I've called.

On the off chance that anyone here knows of an easy coast supplier of a non -permanent screen hardener, please share the vendor.
I can order thru my local vendor in order to get Murakami specific product, but I was hoping to have something in hand next week.
California is a long ship..

Thanks.  John

Xenon has one.  Would ship out of New York City.  Call me.  404-895-1796.  $25 per gallon

[Parker 1]

The CCI Hardener X is not permanent, and the screens reclaim nicely. 

watch this 6 part series on M&R's youtube channel if interested, Mark speaks about applying the hardener after exposure while the screen is still wet....
Part 4 of 6 - Waterbased PVC-Free Alternatives - Inks/Ink Prep

I have a great story on this guy. Lot of theatre. If you watch a few times you realize you're learning nothing

Yea, you may be right but I learned a $h!t load from a guy on here, before he had a gag order put on him..... 

[Colin]

Only thing I actually learned from those videos, is the heat needed to run multicolor designs wet-on-wet. 

The rest was rehashing and going "how does he hold 81 lpi on 225 mesh?"  Well now I know, he does get mesh interference, it just hides well in his prints.  And the SP-1400 is, apparently, an amazing dual cure emulsion...

[Matsui (PVC Free Inks)]

I have heard that if you only use Part A of the A&B hardener, it will allow for reclaiming.  My recent and favorite Murakami emulsion is the SP-1400 with A&B hardener for long production runs, but my true all time favorite is Aqusol TS with diazo and A&B hardener for bullet proof screens.  Please note that Matsui International a water base, discharge, and PVC Free ink manufacture is still recommending you always use a hardener when working with our products.