Discharge White [EPIC FAILURE]

[mimosatexas]

I use Matsui Brite White discharge and have been for a while now without any real issues.  Today I mix up a batch and add my standard 6% activator and 10% water and 5% printgen and it refuses to mix properly.  It looks like really fine cottage cheese, and no amount of mixing is changing it.  I tried doubling the water, and adjusting the % of other additives and no go.  The ink out of the bucket isn't workable as it dries to quickly.  Anyone know of common issues that might cause this?

All variables are essentially the same and I printed with this same bucket of ink a few days ago without issue, same batches of everything.  Could something in my water have caused a ph imbalance or reaction?  It isnt substantially more or less humid today than it was at the beginning of the week.  Just looking for insight and things I can test to get rolling again without dumping the ink (assuming it isnt something with the ink).

[Homer]

this just came up the other day and someone posted the cause/solution of the cottage cheese syndrome...can't for the life of me think what it was...I'll try a search...here we go..you're right, ph.

http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php?topic=10807.0

[mimosatexas]

So is the ink itself the issue?  The linked thread is talking about plasticharge not discharge, not sure if that matters.  What would cause a full bucket of ink to change ph in a few days?  I wanna avoid throwing away money in the future...

[mimosatexas]

Sorry to bump this, but anyone have any tips?  I have about $130 of ink that is currently unprintable.  It's acting really odd, even with just adding distilled water.  If i take some and rub it in my fingers the ink still looks particle-y, like it just refuses to unclump.  It almost seems like it is dried or cured or has separated on a level that isn't immediately obvious.

[ebscreen]

Is it sort of a sandy texture? I've seen this before but can't recall when or why. I know it was on a different
white that we were testing and not CCI's.

Maybe mix the entire bucket before you dole out what you need? Sorry I can't be of more help. Give CCI a whirl though.
Never let's me down.

[mimosatexas]

I'm getting a sample of both the CCI D white and the Magna Super White asap.  They are already on order, but it will still be a few days shipping.  Sandy would be a good way to describe it.  Not sure what the deal is, but it is seriously bumming me out.  Ive been using the Matsui white for a few years without issue and to lose 1/3 of a 5 gallon like this is something I just can't afford...

I'll try mixing the whole bucket with distilled water, but I'm thinking it isn't going to help based on the testing I've already done on smaller quantities.

[screenprintguy]

OH man, wish we could have hooked up on this board a few years ago and kept you from even buying any Matsui discharge base or white. At any rate, now you will seriously appreciate how CCI, or if you try Magna will work. Our fave Discharge white is CCI D-White, always bright, always does what it's supposed to, classified as Organic, which actually means something to certain customers, at least some of ours, and it's price is awesome. Not to mention, when printed properly, outlasts the shirt. We love it and have gone through tonns of it.

[mimosatexas]

I really don't have anything bad to say about the Matsui inks or pigments based on my experience...until this.  They work and produce great results for low cost and are available locally for me.  I am excited about the CCI d white though and the pigments coming in squeeze bottles is awesome, though I put my matsui pigments in the same bottles as soon as I get them.  The price on the CCI seems to be really awesome and it is encouraging to hear how many people like using their inks.

I just wish I knew what changed in the ink.  I used the same ink a few days earlier without issue.

[screenprintguy]

You will see a huge huge difference, even with color matching with the base. The CCI Dbase, or even Magna's base are our favorites. Both can also print, un activated as a just plane water based color. The only thing with the CCI coloring, even though their software can help you achieve and almost exact pms right out of the box, you will go through more of it than you did with the matsui pigments. The magna pigments are alot like Matsui in that they are higher in concentration so you go through less pigment to make a color, but the pricing of the CCI is very very good, and unless you are mixing gallons it's really not that bad, it's amazing how many images you can print with the CCI Dbase, so we have learned to mix more accurate amounts per job an minimize waste. CCI dialed it in very good. The only thing I wasn't too happy with Magna is that the pms software is all calibrated to Uncoated, not that huge of a deal, but you just have to go through and make sure the match will be close to coated pms swatches. I still use the matsui printgen and fixerN out of habbit and never have wash out issues, so we stick with that combo.

[mimosatexas]

good to hear the printgen and fixer work with CCI.  Does the matsui activator also work with CCI or magna out of curiosity? 

I always mix to job specs, averaging 5-10g total per print based on coverage based on weigh tests i did a while ago.  It isn't exact, but close enough to have acceptable amounts of waste most of the time.

I was under the impression all waterbased prints were uncoated due to that matte finish of the inks by default.  I always match my matsui to uncoated colors, and their software is damn near exact most of the time except on some reds/oranges.

One thing that does bug me about the Matsui brite base is the fact that it cant be used for standard unactivated printing as it will ALWAYS lighten a few shades when cured.  This is most obvious on red's becoming pinks, but I have always used 301 instead to color match on whites/lights because of the lightening.  A single base instead of two would rule.

[Frog]

Have you asked Matsui tech support?

My experience is that ink techs usually really know their product.

[tonypep]

I would'nt leave Rutland out if I were you.

[mimosatexas]

I have not called Matsui.  I may still, but I'm walking away from it to focus on other stuff for now. 

Just finished adding distilled water until I got to a 50/50 water/ink mix and mixed it to hell with a drill and shaking the bucket and tried through my test screen and it was still drying in instantly in sections.  It's like something dried the ink up to the point where parts of it simply wont dissolve in the water.  Even runny enough to slide down the screen the top of the ink is acting almost like a lava flow where it is drying and cracking/cratering on a very tiny scale.  I've never seen this before...weird stuff.

[screenprintguy]

The activator does work with the others, but when you run out, make sure and use CCI's activator. There is a difference, some folks say they are all the same, but they really aren't. Not only does it not stink as bad there is a noticeable difference in your outcome, the proof is in the pudding we did alot of testing and actually scrapped what we had left of the Matsui activator and just moved over to the one by cci.

[mimosatexas]

just brought home a quart of new ink.  No issues at all.  Something definitely happened to my ink.  At least I know I'm not crazy though...