How to get more print stroke length?

[3Deep]

I know this has been talk to death on here, #1 is there a standard length between the flood bar chopper cylinder and the print  chopper cylinder, mine is 3 1/2 inches to the middle of each.  I was thinking if the flood bar could be modified at an angle more it could be closer to the squeegee, I know you can angle the flood bar already, but to much and mine hits the screen frame.  If I had a better angle FB I could get almost 2 more inches of print stroke, If you don't follow me on what I'm asking that's ok I,m confused too LOL

Darryl

[cbjamel]

Can't you adjust angle of flood bar my Gauntlet 2 1997 model does?Then lower the bar down?
Shane

[Printficient]

I'm thinking Playboy?
Double bevel for flooding.
Smiling Jack set up.

[Shanarchy]

I'm thinking Playboy?
Double bevel for flooding.
Smiling Jack set up.

This is what I was playing around with right before I sold my mini. Unfortunately, I didn't get too far in the R&D with it to see if it will work. I'm interested to seeing if you can get it to work. They're great presses.

[3Deep]

You can angle the flood bar and lower but it will hit the screen frame so your still not getting that full range, say it the flood bar is straight up and down (0 angle) and your flood bar had a kind of 45 degree angle which would move it closer to the squeegee.  I'll try and get a pic of what I'm talking about.....


Darryl

[Inkworks]

What works on our machine:

Adjust squeegee and floodbar angles so they are as close to each other as possible.

Speed up flood and print strokes as the proxy sensers take a tiny bit of time before the carriage actually stops, so the faster it goes, the longer the stroke is.

We also modified/shortened the positionable metal bracket that the proxy detects so it can be moved a bit further forward/backward on the print head relative to the front and rear screen hanger clamps. BUT you have to be careful as this makes it possible to hit the screen frame!

[inkman996]

I gain two inches on my press doing a few things but I do not think it will be the same for every press.

On mine we have a small folded metal stop block that is supposed to hit the back of the hanger if you go to far. I remove them because they do not protect anything at all. That picks me up about an inch. Then I do what Ink above me said and modify the flags to allow the proxy more travel. Also increasing the speed can gain you some length because the proxies has some drift once the sensor activates. But this does not always work if squeegee speed is important. You can also adjust the front and rear hangers to barely grab the screens which gives you more travel length.

[Inkworks]

You can also adjust the front and rear hangers to barely grab the screens which gives you more travel length.

Another advantage of square frame Hix Retens over Newmans..... 

[alan802]

You can also adjust the front and rear hangers to barely grab the screens which gives you more travel length.

Another advantage of square frame Hix Retens over Newmans..... 

You mean the ONLY advantage

[Inkworks]

Ever try to put a all-round Newman 23 x 31 in a rear clamp manual press?
Ever see a tension jump when you tighten a Newman lock bolt?
Ever see a Newman out of flat?
Ever see a Newman have the mesh nicked on the end of the screen because it wraps around the roller?
Ever have a Newman with a stripped end-cap thread?
Ever have a Newman bolt lock-up because it didn't have enough anti-seize on it?
Ever see anyone build a special table to manually tension a Newman so it could be held flat and in-place while you work a giant wrench and ratchet?
Ever see a special hold-down used for Newmans in a dip-tank because they float?
Ever hear of a Newman filling up with liquid in a dip-tank?

btw. All of those questions are rhetorical because I worked at an all-Newman shop for 12 years, and yes they are still a good product, they just have some issues that sent me to Hix's instead.

As far as I can tell the only disadvantage of the Hix's is that the outside dimensions change as you tension them.

[3Deep]

The Wing flood bars that Rich made for my press are great, they have an angle, but if I had more of that angle I could get about 2 more inches of print stroke without the flood bar hitting the screen frame.  The OEM floods that came with the press normal print stroke you loose 3 1/2  for a total of 7 inches front to back, even with the bevel I still lose about 5 inches total.

D

[alan802]

I know they were rhetorical but I find them interesting and always look to expand on knowledge between products.  I've never layed hands on a Hix frame but I do have a good bit of practical experience with newmans.

Ever try to put a all-round Newman 23 x 31 in a rear clamp manual press? YES, that's why we got a side clamp press

Ever see a tension jump when you tighten a Newman lock bolt? Yes, but after you do one you know how much jump will happen and I've found it to be very consistent.

Ever see a Newman out of flat? Not much anymore, but with very high tensioned screens it happened often, very frustrating.

Ever see a Newman have the mesh nicked on the end of the screen because it wraps around the roller? That's a negative for me on that one.  I see how it can happen but that goes back to something we fix before we stretch the mesh.  It would happen on cheaper mesh that had serious elongation issues.

Ever have a Newman with a stripped end-cap thread?  Not yet, but I've got a lot of older frames and only 12 that were made within the last few years.

Ever have a Newman bolt lock-up because it didn't have enough anti-seize on it? Not yet.

Ever see anyone build a special table to manually tension a Newman so it could be held flat and in-place while you work a giant wrench and ratchet? It helps to be an octopus when manually stretching newmans.

Ever see a special hold-down used for Newmans in a dip-tank because they float?  Never had a newman float, but I've only ever used 23x31 M3's, 18x20 mzx's and M3's.

Ever hear of a Newman filling up with liquid in a dip-tank? Over the years we've had only a few that took on water.

btw. All of those questions are rhetorical because I worked at an all-Newman shop for 12 years, and yes they are still a good product, they just have some issues that sent me to Hix's instead.

As far as I can tell the only disadvantage of the Hix's is that the outside dimensions change as you tension them.

Just from reading your experience it's pretty easy to see they have more advantages than I ever knew, and I've never even seen one in the wild.  Are they more expensive or harder to tension?  I wonder why they aren't more popular.  Newman has obviously gotten the word out about their product but it sounds like they have serious competition with a product I barely knew existed.

[Inkworks]

Hix screens vs. Newman tend to be like Betamax vs. VHS. (before both became obsolete, guess we're the last generation that will be able to us that analogy...)

Hix Retens Propaganda Video

The concept of the outside dimensions growing as you stretch can be a bit of a bother, but once you adapt to it that isn't that big of concern. I find the tension is much easier to make fine adjustments than a Newman, unless you have a air-table..

[Gilligan]

How does that work with something like a trilock?

[Inkworks]

Works fine with a 3 point screen regi system. Not sure about a Trilock specifically though.