Freedom or Javelin thoughts feeling emotions

[sweetts]

Well after last weeks question about thoughts on anatol presses I would like to know your guys thoughts on the freedom or javelin press. Thoughts on the V squeegee system, customer service and the like.

[Prosperi-Tees]

Would definitely get the chopper system if you go this route, the v squeegee just does not have enough adjustments in my opinion. The machines are super solid. The Freedom is a little bit "flimsier" I believe. Customer service and support is definitely there. They are a great company but I don't think they are into advancements as much, they take a slow and go process to upgrades which in a way is a good thing cause you know if they come out with something new that they have done their homework on it.

[TCT]

Everyone I have spoke with was real excited when they heard they could switch to choppers. I know one guy that likes the V type,  he can scoop the ink into the squeegee and use it as a holder to bring back to the press. 
I haven't delt with Workhorse for a auto,  but for other parts or troubleshooting they are awesome!  Just ordered something from them today actually.

[Prosperi-Tees]

My biggest issue with the v squeegee was if I wanted to print with the blade almost vertical you couldn't get a good flood at all. I tried everything. Not saying that the v squeegee is absolutely horrible as there are hundreds if not thousands of printers printing with them everyday. It is just a different animal that I couldn't get used to.

[aauusa]

I love my freedom and the v squeegee. As with any equient the user must know how to use the machine. The print will only be as good as the operator.  Yes I have v squeegees as well. There has never been a time I wanted a chopper system. Workhorse is a solid company with a solid press. And awesome service.

[rmonks]

The biggest complaint I use to hear was printing white. I owned a 6/8 javelin and I learned that I could print white as good if not better on my Javelin vs. my M&R. I sold the Javelin to make more room in my shop, and I do miss the Javelin. The guy I sold it to has added some thin heat resistant insulation board above the heat elements in the flash and has solved the problem with ink curing in the screen, really a smart move. But all in all the Javelin is a great press and YES service is there.

[jvanick]

I'm in the middle of converting head 1 on my '91 Javelin to the new chopper system.  Definitely a bit of an involved project and not for the faint of heart.  However, by the looks of where I've gotten to already, printing setups on head 1 will be much improved, and I'll finally be able to get some of the winged floodbars, and other fun accessories...

(also upgrading the micros at the same time, the original ones are very worn out and always cause me hell when doing tight registration)

I'll post up a full report of how it works when I get everything finalized...

[Grumpy Ole Artist]

The only experience I've had with Workhorse was during an (apparently misguided) attempt to return our old 4 color to the happy land of accurate registration. Ordered 4 new main screen clamp assemblies. Upon attempting to install, I discovered that the bolt pattern was off to the extent it wouldn't line up (1/16-1/8 inch) Their suggestion was to "hog out" the holes....I returned the parts....

[alan802]

I saw these machines this past weekend.  Although they are as basic as they come I've never really heard current or previous owners speak ill of their TUF press so I give kudos for that.  The guys behind the scenes seem genuine and eager to provide great service and support after the sale. 

Now for the V-squeegee, I've heard of shops not having issues with them but I've heard far too many complaints to ignore it.  It has always seemed to me that there isn't enough adjustibility with angles and I've watched tons of videos with the V-squeegee and I've never seen the angle any higher than around 50-60 degrees.  That's fine for many jobs but I think you need the ability to print with 85-90 degrees when necessary.  I could be completely wrong and the press may be able to print with a more upright angle and I've just never seen it so disregard my last comments if that is the case.  I was happy that they started offering the chopper style because I've always felt the V system was inferior and a quick look around at what the big boys use tells me that without having to experience it for myself.  I know that most veteran V-squeegee printers have been very successful with them but I still think 9 out of 10 of them would prefer the chopper style after spending some time with both.  I could be wrong again but it's just an observation and opinion.

I do like what the flashback can do but I don't like what it can do for production numbers and would advise only using it in a screened print head only when necessary and it should be used as a traditional flash whenever possible.  If it's a small job and your shop doesn't need to crank out big numbers, one guy loading and unloading then flashback all you want.  But I'd hate to run a 1000 piece job waiting on that feature to do it's job because you can only do about 25 dz/hr.  I'd try as hard as possible to get an 8 color regardless of whether you think a 6 is enough because I don't think you should rely on the flashback in a used print head like you would have to do a lot on a 6 color.  If space and money are a huge concern then I understand completely if you must go with a 6, but for those of you on the fence, go with the 8.

[GaryG]

It is nice to have any angle that matters at hand with chopper system when
10 degree difference sometimes matters.

Anyone have figures on press production output with Flashback vs Revolver?
That would be interesting...

[aauusa]

we have a 6color freedom and have a flash back.  with a full design 12x16 and print flash print flash we average about 150 shirts per hour.  if we do a print flash and go about 200 shirts per hour,  with out flash 340-360 shirts per hour.  all of this is one loader/unloader.  someone catching shirts at the back end of dryer.    For our shop speed is not always the driving factor of production.   but with that said our speed is not lacking at all IMO.

[Gabe]

Hi y'all, if you change to the chopper style how much your stroke length would be reduce, any thoughts thanks.

[jvanick]

depending on how you set up your squeegee and floodbar, I don't think loose any stroke length.

I only have 18" platens on at the moment (don't ask), but I'm pretty sure I could print the entire length of it and have no problems whatsoever.

in fact, I'd be willing to bet that if you were to compare the 2 systems, you could most likely 'push' a bit more distance out of the chopper system.

My old press doesn't have quite the 'chop' room as the newer presses, but with some creative shimming of the print arm, I'm doing pretty good, of course,  the chopper upgrade wasn't really designed for my press either, but I made it work.

-J

[Persnicketees]

We've had our Javelin with two flashbacks for five years.  We added heat shields to the flashbacks and for the most part, printing t shirts has never been easier for us.  We came from an older M&R with choppers and have been fans of the the V blades.    There are times however where it seems like a little more angle or a varying degree of pressure between flood vs print would be nice, but we are five years in printing t shirts with them and every t shirt has been printed!  It's amazing how that happens.  I would agree that you want an 8 color t shirt press and a conventional flash.  We normally run a single press operator with a catcher, so the flashbacks work well for us.  Also, the flashbacks can work in a "table up" position.  So, if you do have large runs, the flash can run in a conventional style, for instance, base white in head one and "table up" Flashback in head two.  It flashes while the heads are printing.  In custom t-shirt printing, there are varying degrees of difficulty in printing and high end machines with choppers and servos are made for that, but for the majority of our work and I would guess the majority of work done period, the Javelin and V squegees can do the trick.  Hope this helps someone when choosing their next screen printing machine.

[Admiral]

The higher end stuff is more for really pushing out the shirts, speed, setup...

It's awesome that they work well in your shop.  We definitely are losing production at times since our press is a 7/8 and maxes out at 50 but more typically 45 dz/hr.  If we had the press we would be doing 60-70 dz/hr and never use revolver mode.  Soon.