Polyone and Wilflex has lost their mind!

[Rob Coleman]

@Stu - The pigments are available in quarts.  SourceOne has not historically inventoried these, however we can certainly order them.  Looking to stock quarts in select locations.

Viscosity - no you cannot squeeze bottle the pigments - they range in viscosity from pourable to very pasty.

We actually sell a LOT more of the Wilflex EQUALIZER concentrates - there are pigments with some resin in the mix to make them "curable" (similar to the Rutland C3 boosters).  You can add up to 50% pigment so you do not have to worry about over pigmenting so much.  The added advantage is that all thee EQ's are approximately the same viscosity - still cannot be put into a squeeze bottle like WB though.

[tonypep]

Each pig has its own viscosity and thixotropic characteristics but no, squeeze bottles are out. Unless maybe if you cut the tips off. But then theres the issue of settling.

[Zelko-4-EVA]

What is the cost of getting setup on one of these systems... on the smallest level practical (for space and usage reasons... we are SMALL time).

I suppose I will ask here since it's a hot topic, what is the viscosity of the pc express pigments? Are they like the CCI WB Pigments? Can they be put into squeeze bottles?

I suppose you could put some into squeeze bottles, but - in my experience - some of the pigments settle after sitting for a while.  for example, electron blue isnt used very often - you have to stir it before using because the solids will settle to the bottom.  after opening a new bucket and stirring we usually draw off a quart into a bucket that we would use for every day mixing.  it makes it easier to stir and get the solids dispersed into the rest of the PC. 

ones that settle more than most:

10700 PC GREEN
18000 PC ELECTRON YELLOW
18010 PC ELECTRON BLUE
18060 PC ELECTRON ROCKET RED
19040 PC ELECTRON PINK

the Maroon or Magenta (i forget which) dosent settle out like the Electron PCs, but will get some plasticiser that will rise to the top and will need to be stirred up before use.

the Bright Yellow will need to be stirred when you open it as you can see the plasticiser through the clear bucket.

do not put a full bucket of pigment in an ink shaker.  the plasticiser will leak through the bucket seal and you will be cleaning the inside of your shaker.

[StuJohnston]

Thanks for the info everyone! So long as the pigments don't go bad, I don't have much of a problem buying in gallons since it sounds like I might have to wait on quarts anyhow. That and I expect that the quarts would have a much higher cost/volume. Too bad about the squeeze bottles, it can't be that much more difficult than mixing nazdar 9760 pms colors though.

As for the equalizer system, I am not inclined towards that since it doesn't look like it would work with top score base. At least it seems like I would have to give up some of the properties of the top score base to use it.

[ZooCity]

PC is the way to go so long as you lock down your ink mixes.  If your staff can get on board with using the IMS and never, ever dolloping PC into ink "by eye" you'll be just fine.  You do need to drive this point home hard with anyone with access to the ink area.  The IMS puts out a blinking red danger sign if your mix is out of balance, it's not tough, but my printer worked in a shop previously that had the PC system and the staff would just throw the pigs into inks will nilly...I can only imagine how many un-cured, migrating and bad crocking prints that shop put out.   

We can mix a little half quart of any pantone with any base to suit the application and I sure do like that. I don't know of an accurate mix system that lets you mix athletic/low cure temp/low bleed type inks along with the rest of them, it's pretty cool. 

Quarts really should be stocked, available and priced reasonably for this system, especially in the lesser used pigs. It's just so concentrated.  I don't mind buying gals but you end up with thousands of dollars in ink on the shelf. For some operations, that money could be better invested and ink purchased as needed. 

[dirkdiggler]

Just got a call from PolyOne,  super nice and willing to address the situation.  Options are available to me now.  Thanks to TSB for being a public forum for printers like me to address problems and be able to get answers.  Thanks PolyOne.

[Shanarchy]

This is a great thread. It is making me realize I really need to invest in a mixing system.

[Gilligan]

Whew, stepped a way for a sec and lots of good information and questions.

Currently we have a pretty small screen printing production area (~20'x24').  We MOSTLY use off the shelf Union Ink.  We WERE buying quarts in colors and just recently I told my printer that we would start buying gallons as we are finally printing enough that it makes more sense (probably always did, but I'm cheap).  Example, I've been printing shirts in house for a little over a year, we've passed 12's number a couple of months ago, so we are definitely growing (we didn't even try to get business at first as we were just learning the ropes and didn't want to grow too fast). 

We are SERIOUSLY small.  We are on our 2nd gallon of black, 3rd gallon of white and we've only gone through a bit over a quart of bright red.  Now, we have various other colors in stock... but we just don't print large numbers yet.  We are manual only right now (hope to change that at some point, given some extra space).

I think we would want to use pigments... basically we want the best bang for our buck that we can afford space wise.  I don't mind initial investment if the ROI is decent or if it's on something that A. won't ever go bad.  B. the cost continue to go up anyway and C. We will eventually use it.  I once found a great sale on A&W rootbeer and bought a YEAR supply of it.

I have a situation right now that I have to have a PMS match grey (429) on some 100% poly shirts and this would obviously save me some money vs ordering RFU 429.

Not sure if I addressed all the questions, as I got pulled away a couple of times during typing this... but this is what I got now.