Mini Market question

[3Deep]

As you all might know already I have a Anatol mini Horizon reason it fits perfect in my shop and I thinking Anatol right now is heads above other companies on this model.  Do any of you think this market might be the next market for equipmnet manufacturers @ Rich Hoffman, what about you guys anything coming out soon.  I know print size is a big thing right now, but you know how that goes big one year small the next, but I,m thinking if someone could make these small machines work with the 23x31 & 20x24 frames with atleast 6 colors and a flash oh boy!!.  Bigger space means higher rent or build a bigger building which still cost you more to opperate in the long run...I like the what we have now building size,but yes I wouldn't mind having just a little more room, but press size I like the smaller footprint.

Darryl

[alan802]

I'd agree that Anatol has 3 pretty good smaller presses geared to the first time auto buyer.  I'd go ahead and say they might be the best bang for the buck in that aspect.  I do think there are some things that need improvement from Anatol but not really on the smaller footprint press, more so the mid level option such as the Stratus.  I haven't seen a new Stratus with the updated control panel software and how many more features are available and think that was a good move on their part.  If we needed a 6 color press I'd probably go with a loaded horizon but I'd seriously look at the Diamondback because I'm very certain that m&r does almost everything better than Anatol across the board.  No disrespect meant, just stating my opinion of a company that goes above and beyond. 

Slightly off subject, if we needed an 8 or 10 color, it would be very difficult to go with anything other than the RPM because of price and features but I'd look at the MHM S-type for sure and give them an opportunity to knock my socks off.  12-14 color, Challenger III all the way.  I don't see much need for anything above a 14 color, especially for our shop.  If something needs to be flashed 3 times and is that difficult of a print, I'd rather be printing something else and making money.  Our jobs aren't big enough for someone to pay for 10-12 colors so we'd be wasting one hell of a press if we went with a 16 and up press.  I can't really think of a design that we've printed that would have been drastically easier or better with even a 14 or 16 color press.  We have still yet to turn anyone away because their design was too intricate for our 10 color machine.

[244]

As you all might know already I have a Anatol mini Horizon reason it fits perfect in my shop and I thinking Anatol right now is heads above other companies on this model.  Do any of you think this market might be the next market for equipmnet manufacturers @ Rich Hoffman, what about you guys anything coming out soon.  I know print size is a big thing right now, but you know how that goes big one year small the next, but I,m thinking if someone could make these small machines work with the 23x31 & 20x24 frames with atleast 6 colors and a flash oh boy!!.  Bigger space means higher rent or build a bigger building which still cost you more to opperate in the long run...I like the what we have now building size,but yes I wouldn't mind having just a little more room, but press size I like the smaller footprint.

Darryl

We are in this market with the Diamondback "L" SERIES.  The machine has been a huge success since its launch about one year ago. Currently we ship about three of that series per week. The diameter of a press is dictated by the screen size so no matter what you do to minimize a press size when you lay all the screens out that is the determining factor.

[3Deep]

Ok Alan you jump way off my topic, but now lets see here what makes an M&R press better than and Anatol press?.  Lets put apples with apples and compare the Diamond Back with a Full size Horizon no disrepect at all to Mr. Hoffman (I happen to think he is a hell of guy that work tirelessly for his customers) now that aside, you seem to be geared into presses more than myself, so again take these two presses and tell me whats better on the Diamond Back than the Horizon or should we compare a Sportsman to the Horizon.  Lets toss a few things first #1 Service  #2 Price  #3 company Name now go for it..I,m looking forward to your data here.  Hey Alan if you want to split this thread to start a new one on this topic thats fine.

Darryl

[3Deep]

Rich, I remember you telling me about that press back then whats the footprint on that one and hey is it possible to make a 6 or 7 color small footprint press to handle both size screens 23x31 and 20x24, I know it would have to be side clamps which fine with me I like the side clamp machines.

[alan802]

Well, I think that the Horizon has more printer friendly features, but the one major factor that I always go back to with Anatol is the robustness of the press overall.  I wouldn't say they are too light in the loafers, but there are areas where I really appreciate the strength and major build quality I see in presses compared to the anatol.  They work fine, but I've always been very underwhelmed by their lack of beef in many areas of the press.  I wasn't aware of any of that till I really started to study our press in action then seeing the anatol at shows and other shops.  So with that said, I think the Diamondback is going to give you more years of reliable service and that is just my opinion when looking at the two machines together.  Simply put, I think the DB is a more industrial, heavier duty machine, but it does lack some of the features that the horizon has, specifically printhead controls and the main control panel operation.  Now I still think I would have a difficult time not buying the horizon because I like things that help the printer do things quicker, and would probably live with the lesser industrial machine.

Talking about these entry level presses is hard for me to do without pointing out all the things that they don't have compared to what I'm used to running.  No way I could really run either one of those presses without being upset that I wasn't running another mid level machine, and I need to look at them from a completely different viewpoint, but it's hard.  I know I come off like an elitist when talking about autos sometimes but I feel confident I've done enough research on the subject to make some of those claims.

A more practical comparison for me would be the RPM versus the Stratus II but I won't go into detail and ruffle any feathers with that debate. 

Then when you talk about service after the sale, well, it's not even close.

[3Deep]

Good points Alan, yeah its kinda silly you can't talk freely without a spat, but we all like what we like.  My first option of presses when I was auto press shopping was the M&R then Lawson of all things then Anatol came up in a conversation and I think thats back when the mini was being introduced.  Rich pm'ed me a very good letter that I may post later with his permission, but I,m still after that small press that will handle both size screens with a small footprint thats going to give every dime I put into it.

Darryl

[Gilligan]

Ignorant question... but when talking about a ~$20k machine... is the ability to use different size screens all that important?  If you have enough screens that it is an issue then wouldn't you likely have enough room for the larger machine?  I mean, another grand and you got over 30 aluminum 23x31 frames.

Granted that is all static and if you have a good stock of rollers then my whole point is moot and I apologize.

[Prosperi-Tees]

The bad part of the Diamondback L is the print area of only 14x11 thats why that was scratched off my list very early. And Gilligan you can get well over 50 23x31 aluminum statics for under a grand.

[Gilligan]

I was going off an average price (various mesh count) at pocono mt... and that was listed... I'm sure if you are ordering that many then you could negotiate a good deal.

[Prosperi-Tees]

AA Frames and MSJ Gallery on ebay have great deals on bulk qtys on statics.

[Gilligan]

Are the MSJ screens as good as Pocono Mt... again I really don't know how good they are... but their marketing says they are great and it makes sense.

[3Deep]

Ignorant question... but when talking about a ~$20k machine... is the ability to use different size screens all that important?  If you have enough screens that it is an issue then wouldn't you likely have enough room for the larger machine?  I mean, another grand and you got over 30 aluminum 23x31 frames.

Granted that is all static and if you have a good stock of rollers then my whole point is moot and I apologize.

The point I was trying to make is the machine size itself, ok example here, my press which is a mini horizon is 8'11" OD 8/7 that fits my space perfect with a little walk around room... now if I had gotten a full size horizon the size would have been an 8/6 11'0" OD and that would not fit my space at all.  So what I was saying is it would be great to use a full size auto screen in my mini..everything on my press is setup just like its older brother down to the pallet size except the screen holders they are set for 20x24 or 21x28 screens, and we all know a bigger screen gives you a bigger print.

[Homer]

D - any chance you can alter the walls in your shop? We had to in ours to just to get it in the building, maybe it's not the machine, maybe your building needs a swift kick in the junk? . .think about it. . .I'm down for some demo. . .