Got a questions for the artists...

[Clark]

I have some work coming through for a car show we do every year.  Up until now they haven't wanted to pony up for an illustration. 

I sent them some sim process designs we have coming up so they could see the level of work they would be getting for their money.

Anyway, the fell head over heals for one of the cars that we just got finished up...the customer that had us do the illustrations to begin with owns the art outright now. 

My questions is, what would be a fair amount to offer him for it's use on another project.  Total will be around 400 shirts, and we won't be using the original design we will just be pulling the car and then redoing all the other elements. 

I have thought of possibly asking him to just add a tagline at the bottom that says "Image courtesy of **********" and brokering a sponsorship on the back of the shirt.  But assuming he just wants cash, what would be a fair asking price for something like this?

[blue moon]

my thought would be about a $0.75-$1.00 a shirt for a print license (no ownership rights or any other media). When working with high end prints those are the prices I've been quoted. You might be able to get it for less, it will depend on what the artist is looking for.
I would also stay away from selling ti cheap as it will set the precedent and they will expect those prices all the time. I have priced myself high from the first day and my customers are used to paying those fees.

[Command-Z]

Or you could approach it like a stock art license sale. Since it's just one car illustration and not a whole design, you could offer anything in the $100-200 neighborhood for nonexclusive limited use rights. That's the going rate for re-sale of things like that as stock illustration.

Make sure your client owns all the rights to the design as a whole and the incorporated illustrations. Many artists often negotiate to retain the rights to individual elements or line art while the design itself as a whole belongs to the buyer.

[Dottonedan]

I am thinking that a % of sales is a good way to go. It's hard to say what it's worth as fair market value because an artist can get 100.00 in one market  and 300.00 in another.

10% seems to be fair based on the sales of the job for lower quantities. 7% for medium size orders and 5% for large orders. I know that 5% is fare artist royalties on jobs that are in the 5000 units and over.

10% of 2000.00  is of course 200.00

I would look at these as starting points.

10% on sales up to $5000.00
7%   $5001.00 to $10,000.00
5% $10,000.00 - $20,000.00
3%  $20,001.00 and up.

If you order is 2000.00 then a good starting point to consider for art use would be $200.00
That seems to make sense and sounds fair.

[blue moon]

I think Scott is right here! If it is just a part of the whole image, my pricing would be too high.

[Clark]

I guess I was unclear about this situation. 

We did the original art, and the rights to that art were sold to my customer.  A new customer comes in, sees the art, loves it, and now wants to borrow an element of the design for use on his shirt.  So now I have to go to my customer that originally purchased the art and ask permission to use his image.  Job is 400 pieces, and I think I'm gonna offer him $200 for use of his illustrated car.  $.50 per shirt basically for use of an element of his design seems pretty fair.

Thanks!

[Command-Z]

I guess I was unclear about this situation. 

We did the original art, and the rights to that art were sold to my customer.  A new customer comes in, sees the art, loves it, and now wants to borrow an element of the design for use on his shirt.  So now I have to go to my customer that originally purchased the art and ask permission to use his image.  Job is 400 pieces, and I think I'm gonna offer him $200 for use of his illustrated car.  $.50 per shirt basically for use of an element of his design seems pretty fair.

Thanks!

I understood exactly. I think Dan's formula is a very good one if we're talking about a whole design, but a single element in a resale situation, IMO, should be handled like a one-time-fee usage sale. $200 is a fair price.

The only problem might be that the original client might own the car itself and not want it on another shirt... or the car's original owner might object to the sale, or even the photographer who took the reference photo, if that photo was traced. Other than that, the opportunity to make same passive income on art they own should be attractive to them.

[Dottonedan]

Yes,  I think we understood.

I don't know if I would see a difference in weather it's a main part of a design or all of a design but I certainly would expect more money for a full design. The % thing runs pretty close to what you are all charging. Roughly $200.00 The vehicle is a main part of the design. It can stand alone as a product or the entire design is a product.  If someone draws nothing but a beautiful car, it is "the" design.

Lets say the order is $6.00 per shirt x 400 shirts. Thats $2400.00  10% of that is $240.00

Lets say the order is $3.00 per shirt x 400 shirts. Thats $1200.00  15% of that is $180.00

Lets say the order is $6.00 per shirt x 200 shirts. Thats $600.00    20% of that is $240.00


Each is equal to the value of the cost of the order.

Any way you look at it, $200.0 is a fair price.