Computer...meet floor!

[mimosatexas]

I agree to a certain extent, though unless you are building a pretty low end machine, that $200-400 is more like $600-800+ in my experience.  For a basic computer that will run Office and lets you browse the internet, sure go for the prebuilt if you have no experience.  For something with ample power to run Adobe without any slowdowns, render the odd video or 3D model, or truly multitask, you are going to spend a lot more on a prebuilt.  Hell, if you don't want to build it yourself, buy the parts and pay a flat fee for someone like Gilligan to put it together.

The system that Pierre pointed out only cost $685... I don't see how you can build a system like that and SAVE $600-800+ unless those parts fell off the back of a truck. :p

That computer is a low end computer, so as I mentioned you could save $200-400 by building vs purchasing.  It's hard to tell from that site exactly which components are being used, but aside from the processor, the computer is pretty low end all around.  The video card would be an awful choice/value if you were building your own for example.  No info at all on the mobo, lowest spec RAM around, etc.  Doing some quick pcpartpicker checking on the components you can look up, and inflating the price a bit to account for the case and peripherals and shipping, you would easily come in under $450 for that computer building it yourself, and half of that is just the CPU.  Like I said earlier, most prebuilts will have one or two components that make it look like a good deal, but will skimp on the other stuff.

We had 19 workstations, 2 servers, and 14 laptops at my old job, and over the 5+ years I worked there, they used Dell and then Lenovo during the one major upgrade.  For them the warranties and "service" made the extra expense worth it.  For me, I spend more time dealing with horrible service and dumbass techs and uninstalling bloatware than I thought was worth it, shrug.

[GraphicDisorder]

We've debate the finer points of building your own before and from what I know, Gilligan and myself are the only two that did (or in his case still do) work with computers for living. I also have a computer engineering background and at one point could design the chips going into the motherboard. Also was an IBM partner and had 12K square feet of computers and parts in the warehouse, 3 levels high. Before that, I set up repair departments for computer resale shops. Before that, I owned a computer networking company servicing local cities and corporate clients. All of this to give some perspective on where I am coming from.

pierre

My buddy's kid has a Phd, thinks he's the smartest guy in the world. His dad was a firefighter before opening his now several million dollar a year business which he creates/invents/builds machines. His kid gets offended when people suggest his dad is a engineer because he has no degree to back it up.  The kid calls his dad at best a inventor. The kid works for his dad.  The kid drives a Jeep to work, his dad drives a Ferrari.

Another fun story is my artist used to be in the offset printing world.  He took classes in college taught by a professor who knew it all, had all the experience to back it up and the resume that seemed to tell the story. Until you considered he failed at 3 prior printing businesses and hasn't owned one in over a decade but is some how an expert on printing today. My employee was already working part time while in school for a offset printer and suggested he learned nothing in that class that was relevant to how a print shop runs at that current period and it's no wonder his businesses failed.

A monkey can build a stable computer. Id suggest anyone considering it without knowledge of computer parts seek out someone for help with the components they select but nearly anyone can assemble it.

I just think when you guys go on about these used, refurbished, and at times old computers you should classify that a bit when posting them to people who know no difference. I am sure they run great, don't doubt it for a second. But my mother has a $400 HP computer that never needs rebooted either... doesn't mean it's awesome  

[blue moon]

We've debate the finer points of building your own before and from what I know, Gilligan and myself are the only two that did (or in his case still do) work with computers for living. I also have a computer engineering background and at one point could design the chips going into the motherboard. Also was an IBM partner and had 12K square feet of computers and parts in the warehouse, 3 levels high. Before that, I set up repair departments for computer resale shops. Before that, I owned a computer networking company servicing local cities and corporate clients. All of this to give some perspective on where I am coming from.

pierre

My buddy's kid has a Phd, thinks he's the smartest guy in the world. His dad was a firefighter before opening his now several million dollar a year business which he creates/invents/builds machines. His kid gets offended when people suggest his dad is a engineer because he has no degree to back it up.  The kid calls his dad at best a inventor. The kid works for his dad.  The kid drives a Jeep to work, his dad drives a Ferrari.

Another fun story is my artist used to be in the offset printing world.  He took classes in college taught by a professor who knew it all, had all the experience to back it up and the resume that seemed to tell the story. Until you considered he failed at 3 prior printing businesses and hasn't owned one in over a decade but is some how an expert on printing today. My employee was already working part time while in school for a offset printer and suggested he learned nothing in that class that was relevant to how a print shop runs at that current period and it's no wonder his businesses failed.

A monkey can build a stable computer. Id suggest anyone considering it without knowledge of computer parts seek out someone for help with the components they select but nearly anyone can assemble it.

I just think when you guys go on about these used, refurbished, and at times old computers you should classify that a bit when posting them to people who know no difference. I am sure they run great, don't doubt it for a second. But my mother has a $400 HP computer that never needs rebooted either... doesn't mean it's awesome

'not sure what you are implying here, that I don't know what I am doing with computers? If the size of the business and the cost of the toys is your reference stick, I could probably beat your buddy at one point in time. I left that industry by choice, not necessity.

The units I suggested are not top of the line, that was never the request. Tom was looking for something that will run his software trouble free and not be slow. Bang for the buck, it's what I would be buying (and would upgrade the RAM). If more speed is needed, he could upgrade to SSD and he would be within 10% of the speed of the fastest boxes out there for a fraction of the money. That to me is common sense purchase. . .

pierre

pierre

[blue moon]

I agree to a certain extent, though unless you are building a pretty low end machine, that $200-400 is more like $600-800+ in my experience.  For a basic computer that will run Office and lets you browse the internet, sure go for the prebuilt if you have no experience.  For something with ample power to run Adobe without any slowdowns, render the odd video or 3D model, or truly multitask, you are going to spend a lot more on a prebuilt.  Hell, if you don't want to build it yourself, buy the parts and pay a flat fee for someone like Gilligan to put it together.

The system that Pierre pointed out only cost $685... I don't see how you can build a system like that and SAVE $600-800+ unless those parts fell off the back of a truck. :p

That computer is a low end computer, so as I mentioned you could save $200-400 by building vs purchasing.  It's hard to tell from that site exactly which components are being used, but aside from the processor, the computer is pretty low end all around.  The video card would be an awful choice/value if you were building your own for example.  No info at all on the mobo, lowest spec RAM around, etc.  Doing some quick pcpartpicker checking on the components you can look up, and inflating the price a bit to account for the case and peripherals and shipping, you would easily come in under $450 for that computer building it yourself, and half of that is just the CPU.  Like I said earlier, most prebuilts will have one or two components that make it look like a good deal, but will skimp on the other stuff.

We had 19 workstations, 2 servers, and 14 laptops at my old job, and over the 5+ years I worked there, they used Dell and then Lenovo during the one major upgrade.  For them the warranties and "service" made the extra expense worth it.  For me, I spend more time dealing with horrible service and dumbass techs and uninstalling bloatware than I thought was worth it, shrug.

you need to redo your math. OS is $150 and the cpu is$250. That's $400 before anything else. The video card is Adobe certified (which in Tom's case might not matter since he is running Corel), so before the RAM, case, power supply, dvd drive, mouse, keyboard and the rest of the parts, you are already at what they charge. Plus you get support (which might not mean anything to you, but I'd rather somebody else work on it and concentrate on the business, plus Tom, for all we know does not have those skills).

pierre

[GraphicDisorder]

We've debate the finer points of building your own before and from what I know, Gilligan and myself are the only two that did (or in his case still do) work with computers for living. I also have a computer engineering background and at one point could design the chips going into the motherboard. Also was an IBM partner and had 12K square feet of computers and parts in the warehouse, 3 levels high. Before that, I set up repair departments for computer resale shops. Before that, I owned a computer networking company servicing local cities and corporate clients. All of this to give some perspective on where I am coming from.

pierre

My buddy's kid has a Phd, thinks he's the smartest guy in the world. His dad was a firefighter before opening his now several million dollar a year business which he creates/invents/builds machines. His kid gets offended when people suggest his dad is a engineer because he has no degree to back it up.  The kid calls his dad at best a inventor. The kid works for his dad.  The kid drives a Jeep to work, his dad drives a Ferrari.

Another fun story is my artist used to be in the offset printing world.  He took classes in college taught by a professor who knew it all, had all the experience to back it up and the resume that seemed to tell the story. Until you considered he failed at 3 prior printing businesses and hasn't owned one in over a decade but is some how an expert on printing today. My employee was already working part time while in school for a offset printer and suggested he learned nothing in that class that was relevant to how a print shop runs at that current period and it's no wonder his businesses failed.

A monkey can build a stable computer. Id suggest anyone considering it without knowledge of computer parts seek out someone for help with the components they select but nearly anyone can assemble it.

I just think when you guys go on about these used, refurbished, and at times old computers you should classify that a bit when posting them to people who know no difference. I am sure they run great, don't doubt it for a second. But my mother has a $400 HP computer that never needs rebooted either... doesn't mean it's awesome

'not sure what you are implying here, that I don't know what I am doing with computers? If the size of the business and the cost of the toys is your reference stick, I could probably beat your buddy at one point in time. I left that industry by choice, not necessity.

The units I suggested are not top of the line, that was never the request. Tom was looking for something that will run his software trouble free and not be slow. Bang for the buck, it's what I would be buying (and would upgrade the RAM). If more speed is needed, he could upgrade to SSD and he would be within 10% of the speed of the fastest boxes out there for a fraction of the money. That to me is common sense purchase. . .

pierre

pierre

On this end it seemed by you listing your background that maybe you believe or want to make it seem the rest of us don't know anything about this subject. I am suggesting that just because someone did something for a living doesn't always mean they are some sort of expert or know everything they are talking about. You may or may not be.  In the tech world a few months out of that business and the landscape starts changing, a few years is like a life time. Somewhere some guy is pushing screen print "paint" and curing it in his oven at home and someone paid him for it. Shall we line up for advice? I dunno.  I am sure you are knowledgeable but I just see you push those links a bit hard and I think its a bit over the top for what I see there in MANY cases.

[Gilligan]

I 100% agree with you that you can save money by building yourself... but some would rather spend the extra 200-400 and be done with it.  That's how I make my living.

I agree to a certain extent, though unless you are building a pretty low end machine, that $200-400 is more like $600-800+ in my experience. 

The system that Pierre pointed out only cost $685... I don't see how you can build a system like that and SAVE $600-800+ unless those parts fell off the back of a truck. :p

That computer is a low end computer, so as I mentioned you could save $200-400 by building vs purchasing. 

Just putting our full conversation into the circular context that it is.

[SoccerMom]

We've debate the finer points of building your own before and from what I know, Gilligan and myself are the only two that did (or in his case still do) work with computers for living. I also have a computer engineering background and at one point could design the chips going into the motherboard. Also was an IBM partner and had 12K square feet of computers and parts in the warehouse, 3 levels high. Before that, I set up repair departments for computer resale shops. Before that, I owned a computer networking company servicing local cities and corporate clients. All of this to give some perspective on where I am coming from.

pierre

My buddy's kid has a Phd, thinks he's the smartest guy in the world. His dad was a firefighter before opening his now several million dollar a year business which he creates/invents/builds machines. His kid gets offended when people suggest his dad is a engineer because he has no degree to back it up.  The kid calls his dad at best a inventor. The kid works for his dad.  The kid drives a Jeep to work, his dad drives a Ferrari.

Another fun story is my artist used to be in the offset printing world.  He took classes in college taught by a professor who knew it all, had all the experience to back it up and the resume that seemed to tell the story. Until you considered he failed at 3 prior printing businesses and hasn't owned one in over a decade but is some how an expert on printing today. My employee was already working part time while in school for a offset printer and suggested he learned nothing in that class that was relevant to how a print shop runs at that current period and it's no wonder his businesses failed.

A monkey can build a stable computer. Id suggest anyone considering it without knowledge of computer parts seek out someone for help with the components they select but nearly anyone can assemble it.

I just think when you guys go on about these used, refurbished, and at times old computers you should classify that a bit when posting them to people who know no difference. I am sure they run great, don't doubt it for a second. But my mother has a $400 HP computer that never needs rebooted either... doesn't mean it's awesome

   I must be missing something.... So the kids wrong? or Is the dad surrounding himself with the skillset he needs (like H/Ford), The Ferrari is better than a Jeep, so that's whats making his dad so awesome? (My dad was pretty awesome, but he drove a station wagon), And your moms 400.00 HP probably not a bad computer, most likely it would even push p/s through without even getting warm, so we need a monkey?... What?

[GraphicDisorder]

We've debate the finer points of building your own before and from what I know, Gilligan and myself are the only two that did (or in his case still do) work with computers for living. I also have a computer engineering background and at one point could design the chips going into the motherboard. Also was an IBM partner and had 12K square feet of computers and parts in the warehouse, 3 levels high. Before that, I set up repair departments for computer resale shops. Before that, I owned a computer networking company servicing local cities and corporate clients. All of this to give some perspective on where I am coming from.

pierre

My buddy's kid has a Phd, thinks he's the smartest guy in the world. His dad was a firefighter before opening his now several million dollar a year business which he creates/invents/builds machines. His kid gets offended when people suggest his dad is a engineer because he has no degree to back it up.  The kid calls his dad at best a inventor. The kid works for his dad.  The kid drives a Jeep to work, his dad drives a Ferrari.

Another fun story is my artist used to be in the offset printing world.  He took classes in college taught by a professor who knew it all, had all the experience to back it up and the resume that seemed to tell the story. Until you considered he failed at 3 prior printing businesses and hasn't owned one in over a decade but is some how an expert on printing today. My employee was already working part time while in school for a offset printer and suggested he learned nothing in that class that was relevant to how a print shop runs at that current period and it's no wonder his businesses failed.

A monkey can build a stable computer. Id suggest anyone considering it without knowledge of computer parts seek out someone for help with the components they select but nearly anyone can assemble it.

I just think when you guys go on about these used, refurbished, and at times old computers you should classify that a bit when posting them to people who know no difference. I am sure they run great, don't doubt it for a second. But my mother has a $400 HP computer that never needs rebooted either... doesn't mean it's awesome

   I must be missing something.... So the kids wrong? or Is the dad surrounding himself with the skillset he needs (like H/Ford), The Ferrari is better than a Jeep, so that's whats making his dad so awesome? (My dad was pretty awesome, but he drove a station wagon), And your moms 400.00 HP probably not a bad computer, most likely it would even push p/s through without even getting warm, so we need a monkey?... What?

The kid believes because he has a Phd and was taught and earned a engineering degree that he is smarter than his dad who is self taught and has no degree. But interestingly his dad created and invented all of their products prior to his son joining the company.  The point is not everyone with a degree or even some cases experience has all of the answers. His dad is awesome because he decided it wasn't that hard to figure out how to build products without being an engineer and its made him millions. His son talks about how smart he is a lot without anything to show for it

[farmboygraphics]

"(which might not mean anything to you, but I'd rather somebody else work on it and concentrate on the business, plus Tom, for all we know does not have those skills).    pierre"

No...Tom does not have these skills. I've purchase two customs before and they both worked fine right up until the moment they no longer did. We just got one of them back up and running today after finding the driver and OS disc's. Did a format and clean install. Took half the day to get everything going, but it's up and running. We'll mess with the other one another day. My problem with building one myself is that I wouldn't have any idea of what to buy. I know that you have to match parts up to the motherboard and so on and what not and to be honest, I don't want to spend X amount of money putting something together only to find it not working when I hit that power button. So for now I'll muddle through with what I have and upgrade when I can. As much as I'd love to learn a new skill, there's days here that still kick my ass and I've been learning for 15 years. :-)  Thanks for all the input!

[SoccerMom]

    Without knowing the principals I could see that, A phd in engineering However isn't really considered underachievement, (especially in todays computer age job market) Engineering requires a lot of disciplines all pointing at perfection as far as a product goes.  FWIW, I myself am self taught, make my own equipment, and never even finished High school, But that fact has driven me to better myself. (I drive a Camaro, does that count?)....As for the problem at hand, OP, Newegg has some really cool kits as far as building systems. Its not really that hard once you know what you need. And most hacker sites have a "computer corner" for tech.

[GraphicDisorder]

    Without knowing the principals I could see that, A phd in engineering However isn't really considered underachievement, (especially in todays computer age job market) Engineering requires a lot of disciplines all pointing at perfection as far as a product goes.  FWIW, I myself am self taught, make my own equipment, and never even finished High school, But that fact has driven me to better myself. (I drive a Camaro, does that count?)....As for the problem at hand, OP, Newegg has some really cool kits as far as building systems. Its not really that hard once you know what you need. And most hacker sites have a "computer corner" for tech.

Drive what ever you want, my point about what he drives is his kid talks a big big game and hes got a degree to suggest he knows what he is doing. But his dad is the one actually not talking much just doing, I just find it interesting and you see examples like that all over life. His kid is real smart and if he ever stops talking about being so smart he may be able to make them both more money.

[Gilligan]

I've seen "experienced" computer guys come in and not properly install RAM chips (not seated fully)... so yes it's easy, but there are sometimes subtleties that these guys rather not futz with.


*Obviously those guys weren't experienced in building computers.

[UnderPressureSP]

I built my dream machine for 2k and would never buy a computer again after building this machine.  It teaches you a lot plus I am able to have a  machine that would cost 8k+ via mac but for a lot less.  Also it taught me how to support my machine when it does have problems but to be honest its been pretty problem less.  Plus a got a case that can run up to 9 hard drives and has enough space to liquid cool the system so I can juice it when I need more power through a motherboard function built into the bios.   It took me about 12 hours to do the build and get it running smooth.  I did have a lot to hook up with the cooling system and hard drives but it was pretty much plug in and read.   PC parts picker is a the solution to your problems.  Also if you go into frys and talk with the computer guys in the build section they will guide you the way of the best build.  I did research my build for about 3 months while procuring parts since the pc part market goes up and down so much.  PC parts picker helps you track that so when a good deal comes you can get it.   I would say if you have a 1k or more to build your own and if not buy from a manufacture but it will not be the newest and greatest.  We did recently get a used mac since we just need a computer for invoicing and email which is fine for simple graphics processing but since I work in 24x36 at 720dpi sometimes I needed to build a rig that could handle my creative side since I started draw all digitally now.....   Wish you luck in your choices. 

[mimosatexas]

"(which might not mean anything to you, but I'd rather somebody else work on it and concentrate on the business, plus Tom, for all we know does not have those skills).    pierre"

No...Tom does not have these skills. I've purchase two customs before and they both worked fine right up until the moment they no longer did. We just got one of them back up and running today after finding the driver and OS disc's. Did a format and clean install. Took half the day to get everything going, but it's up and running. We'll mess with the other one another day. My problem with building one myself is that I wouldn't have any idea of what to buy. I know that you have to match parts up to the motherboard and so on and what not and to be honest, I don't want to spend X amount of money putting something together only to find it not working when I hit that power button. So for now I'll muddle through with what I have and upgrade when I can. As much as I'd love to learn a new skill, there's days here that still kick my ass and I've been learning for 15 years. :-)  Thanks for all the input!

just an fyi, pcpartspicker handles the compatibility stuff for you.  If you pick a component, it will only show you options that are compatible as you continue to add pieces.  if you decide to upgrade or change a piece in your build, it will point out compatability issues for you that you can then fix.