Matsui discharge base question

[blue moon]

I have a DSPS binder and a discharge base. What is the difference between those?
Any info would be appreciated! I have tried searching on the interwebs and am not getting anything out of it. Matsui does not even list the DSPS adn what little I could find on the web seemed to indicate that they are used for the same purpose.

thanx,


pierre

[tonypep]

P-we talked about this earlier. Sorry I'm not much help but the terms "binder" and "base" are generally referring to the same thing when it comes to WB inks. The words are interchangeable. I'm guessing here but the "binder" might be an adhesion additive and may not be necessary.
Others know more about this and I'm sure will enlighten us.

[blue moon]

Hey TOny,

here's what Matsui has on their web site.

Brite Discharge Base - Discharge System for reactive dyes. This is an excellent, highly pigmented brighter discharge system.

Binder DSFP - Phthalate free Discharge System for reactive dyes. It can be used with or without pigments.

DSPS is not even listed and they clearly list the base and the binder as two different products. The only source of info I found says that they DSPS can be used alone or with pigments. So I fail to understand the difference. I did take some of the base and added about 1.5% of ZFS and the shirt discharged pretty nice. The goal was to get a shade of gray (on a black shirt) which is there, but it does have a little bit of reddish hue. This would most likely go away with more ZFS.  Do I add more ZFS and then black pigment to make it pop more and lose the hue?

pierre

[squeegee]

We get an approximate cool grey 10 using 65% black, 35% white using sericol's discharge, 6% activator, depending on the grey you want, you could just increase/decrease the ratio.  I've made in a pinch a similar grey using the same ratio (65/35), 6% black pigment to brite discharge base and brite discharge white, 6% activator.

DSFP I believe is another version of discharge base, if I remember correctly the brite base is better for brighter colors.  I have in my notes the DSFP is better for Pantone matching.  Neither of these things I am totally sure about.  There's a guy at Charles Jessup named Kazoo or a tech guy at Matsui named Kazumi that could give you a better explanation.

[Evo]

Hey TOny,

here's what Matsui has on their web site.

Brite Discharge Base - Discharge System for reactive dyes. This is an excellent, highly pigmented brighter discharge system.

Binder DSFP - Phthalate free Discharge System for reactive dyes. It can be used with or without pigments.

DSPS is not even listed and they clearly list the base and the binder as two different products. The only source of info I found says that they DSPS can be used alone or with pigments. So I fail to understand the difference. I did take some of the base and added about 1.5% of ZFS and the shirt discharged pretty nice. The goal was to get a shade of gray (on a black shirt) which is there, but it does have a little bit of reddish hue. This would most likely go away with more ZFS.  Do I add more ZFS and then black pigment to make it pop more and lose the hue?

pierre

The DSPS binder is the discharge base with zero pigment added to it. It's intended as a base layer or as a dye-discharge system with mixed pigments. It works best on medium to light colors. Does not give the brightest results on very dark colors or black.

The "brite" discharge base has a just a touch of white added to it. It can be used with added pigments. For mixing, it's very similar to their non-discharge "matte" base. In fact, when using their mixing formulas, any call for clear base plus matte base, I just add the percentages together and use just the "brite" base. The brite base will produce a close-to-white underbase and works well on darks and black.

Their pre-mixed white base is full on white, (like 10% or more pigment to it). That is intended as a top white only, (highlight white or standalone white) and not as an underbase, as the colors will come out with an extreme pastel shift if printed on top of it.

[Evo]

I have in my notes the DSFP is better for Pantone matching.

When printed straight on medium to light colors, yes. The brite base is better for Pantone when printing straight on darks and black. (in my experience anyway....ymmv)

[tonypep]

Not to beat it into the ground but the CCI as well as Rutland and WFX bases work equally across the board without confusion.

[Evo]

Not to beat it into the ground but the CCI as well as Rutland and WFX bases work equally across the board without confusion.

That's why I'm on my last batch of Matsui discharge.