Anyone using these frames?

[Ron Pierson]

We have been using them for years - a great frame. We like them because it eliminates using tape on the squeegee side - a BIG time and money saver. Lately, after changing chemistry, they are coming unglued.  I'm looking for a solution for a quick, water-based ink degradent and possibly emulsion remover. An all-in-one solution if there is such a thing. We have fully automated the washout and need this chemistry to not foam and not attack the glue on the frames. We do about 5-600 frames a day.

We are going back to the old chemistry until a solution is found but we don't like the old stuff either - it is petroleum based and leaves the frames oily.
Thanks in advance for any comment made

Ron Pierson   

[jvanick]

we HATE these as we don't have an automatic washer and when you spray them out they spray back at you.

BTW, who are you getting them from?  (you can pm if you'd like)... they look like they're coming from one of the vendors we've gotten frames from and I have questions for you if they are.

[Homer]

I was talking to my CCI rep yesterday about auto cleaning systems, he suggested CCI IW-107 with a little emulsion removing powder.  it does not foam up like you are saying.

[screenprintguy]

BeenieDoo for ink degradent, KorChem's CP2 in the dip tank for emulsion remover, CCI Pinkstuff as a final dehaze/degrease, has no negative effect to our mesh on glued frames, but a very smooth and efficient loops for reclaiming.

[Frog]

We have also been warned about drying in the sun on hot days. That can pop the glue (though, I only have had it happen on older frames)

[Ron Pierson]

Thanks for the comments guys.

jvanick  - We get the frames from Graphic Screen in Chicago. Frank is REAL good to work with and is working on a solution as well. These guys are not the "take your money and run" vendor. They stand behind their product! The hand pressure washer and splash-back is an issue if you just stand them up straight and just spray away (squeegee side). I have trained my guys to grab the frame and tilt it toward them so the corner spray goes down rather than back at them. We then flip them to do the other two corners. (I can stand there in a business suit and not get a drop of water on me). We then send the frames to de-haze and de-grease where the pressure isn't so great.

[jvanick]

We've had tons of issues with GSF frames coming in with low tension.

Smesh at 15n or less... and dropping to 12 or 13 after a few uses.

A friend brought some new 160 standard mesh in for me to expose for him and they were at 16n.

Not sure what's going on there, but not acceptable in my shop at all.

[Ron Pierson]

I made a mistake in my comments. We use a direct to screen from M&R - I-image 3 head - not a DTS. Thanks for seeing this Frog.

We request a certain tension when we order our screens. They stay at that tension (give or take a few newtons) until the screen is unusable. I think it is due to the blockout encroaching onto the mesh. We cycle these frames MANY times before they "just wear out" then send them back for re-stretch. As we all know - screens have a shelf life and when they die we just have to deal with them in our own way - either by roller and wrench, sure lock, re-stretch, click frame, or trash can.

As we all know - we do two things. We print stuff and clean up our mess. We only get paid to print - no money in cleanup. We try to keep our equipment as good as we can (screens in this conversation) and use them as long as we can. There is a great cost in doing this and I think we all strive to save as much money as possible in this process. 

I wish that SCREEN printing could be done without screens at all.........

[Logoman]

How are these Screens (Frames) treated so there is no need to tape Squeegee side of frame?

[Ron Pierson]

Well...Logoman...there is a 1 and a half inch blocking strip (The frame glue) applied just where you would apply tape anyway. On the squeegee side, there is a bead of caulking compound that is chemically resistant that keeps the screen from coming apart from the frame. We have all seen on stretch-n-glue where they come apart from the inside out - this prevents it from happening. This permanent block-out can hold up quite well at the pressure washer (with reservations - 300 PSI? - maybe). Think of it this way - how long does it take to tape a screen (30 seconds?), remove the tape when done (45 seconds?), throw it all away at the end of the day, impact the environment with your waste, and actually purchase the tape. All this math may work out in your favor depending on volume and speed of frame use in your shop. We do an average of 500 frames a day. The numbers started to make sense...........

[Frog]

We do have an old thread or two on this method of permanently blocking out the borders of mesh.

[mk162]

the problem we had with permanent blockout was the coater would "chatter" on the screen and we got some really poorly coated screens.

an autocoater would probably solve that problem...

[jvanick]

the problem we had with permanent blockout was the coater would "chatter" on the screen and we got some really poorly coated screens.

same problem here with them.

great idea in theory, just didn't work out for us....

(neither did that company's frames, but that's a different story).

[jvanick]

Just wanted to post and update about my tension situation: I just got off the phone with Frank at GSF... since I was getting these from a 3rd party, I hadn't talked directly with them yet..

He agrees that the tension levels that the screens were coming in with is a problem, and is going to work with me to resolve it.

I'll post more when I learn more.