Printed waterbased Matsui white CL on Badger digital camo

[jvanick]

Today we had PJ from Matsui in the shop doing some experiments with waterbased ink.

We decided to push the limits and try some extreme prints where even silicone was having issues...

Printed Matsui black underbase and white cl on top.  With fixer, this stuff cured at 230 degrees with no sublimation issues and a really soft hand.

We'll start wash tests tomorrow after 24 hours,  but so far, absolutely amazing.

[ZooCity]

How was the opacity of the white HSA over the black base?  Mesh?

[jvanick]

160S for both screens

black pfpf
then
white

opacity was amazing... 

I'll post some pics in a while

1/2 the cost of silcone ink, no shelf-life, and easier cleanup... win all the way around.

tested on both the green/grey/black and the red/grey/black... both worked just fine for now...

obviously time and wash tests are still needed

[ZooCity]

That sounds about right for HSA.  2 UB screens + Hilite.  Rutland's product is a grey UB but couldn't be used in this scenario as it cures at 320˚.  230˚ is awesome.

My guess is silicone could do this in 2 screens though?  Nazdar dude called today and we're getting a pint of the white to check out.  I understand it costs a lot and has shelf life v HSA.  HSA does have a shelf life though, it is water base after all, unless Matsui has some special magic in theirs. 

[jvanick]

We were doing pfp on standard poly no problem at all... no blocker.

I could be wrong but I thought PJ said this was not a HSA.

Looks awesome on triblends too...

Might be our new goto, as discharge has all sorts of consistency issues on a lot of this softer fabric...

[ZooCity]

Well, I guess I'm just calling any high solids, opaque wb ink "HSA".  I couldn't find much on it except for this sheet that says it's beefed up version of their stretch white.

http://www.dynamicscreenprintingsupply.com/assets/Docs/spec-sheets/Matsui%202014%20Ink%20Application%20Chart%20Uncommon%20Products.pdf

I always thought the 301 White was very HSA like, even before I knew what that was, it just covered and matted down well.

[noortrd]

Any polywhite from matsui.  black and Greg not good as under base.

[ebscreen]

black and Greg not good as under base.

I always thought Greg was a great underbase!



I was reading how a lot of people are needing two underbases or DCUB for large coverage HSA white, and
wondering if it has to do with water content or something. Attached is a pic of HSA white, 160 mesh
two screens, double stroke base single top on a NL Tri-Blend. I'm getting a little obsessed with
HSA and looking for anywhere we can fit it in. Overprinted some with plastisol yesterday, results
are amazing, waiting on wash tests.

Oddly enough when I first started printing with the Speedball kit my mom bought me I didn't have any
ink and had to steal my sisters acrylics. Full circle.

[ZooCity]

I think water content is a huge part of it.  When it's at that gummier viscosity after evaporating on press for awhile it can be super opaque but of course will begin to dry in like mad and not want to flood, etc. 

Using Rutland HSA Soft White, we can do 2 screens for a lot of jobs but have had a hard time keeping that consistent so we run the 3rd for the bigger fill areas.  DC UB just solves it all and, like plastisol, delivers the superior print.  With all HSA we're completely bridging the image so it's not breathable.  DC UB brings back some breathability and a little less wash durability (the all HSA prints I've tested are crazy durable) but worth it for the improved hand and airflow I think.

Virus on that?  Print looks great, especially for going through a 160.  Nice work.

[ebscreen]

Thanks. We do run dangerously close to too dry. I've noticed that just a tiny bit of water
will decrease opacity significantly, like not even fair compared to what it does for printability.

The times we've run DCUB with HSA top I don't know if the HSA was too thin
or the blanks were just a really bad dye lot, but it wasn't nearly as white as we
wanted. More testing necessary of course.

[jvanick]

we do so much stuff that people wear right away (church events, 5k's, charity events), that discharge is just not a really good option for us... the waterbased stuff is a great option over plastisol, and has so much nicer of a hand.

I'm actually extermely impressed at how nicely it worked on the digital camo... that stuff is CRAZY bleeder, so to have an option that works on that, and has a really nice feel is really cool for us.

Plus this stuff works crazy well on triblends...

so far very happy, we'll be running some long-ish runs of it on monday, so it'll be interesting to see how it performs across a few hundred shirts.

[ZooCity]

So long as your prints are completely cured I think the whole concern with wearing a DC print before washing is just the sulfurous stuff that's left on the print can irritate some people's skin but I bet that's very rare and I imagine also mild.

Trouble is, you know if it happens once to one person you will forever be the shop that made those shirts that gave Gary a rash.

I don't think any shirt, even just a blank one should be worn before washing, there's likely worse stuff than any ink in the fabric already... but people are going to of course.  We let discharge prints go out the door anyways and it has never been a problem.  Just sayin'.   

I will also say that we need to work on our packing materials and put some lit in there directing people to wash first and some wash instructions just for that one person who will actually follow them. 

[jvanick]

So long as your prints are completely cured I think the whole concern with wearing a DC print before washing is just the sulfurous stuff that's left on the print can irritate some people's skin but I bet that's very rare and I imagine also mild.

Trouble is, you know if it happens once to one person you will forever be the shop that made those shirts that gave Gary a rash.

I don't think any shirt, even just a blank one should be worn before washing, there's likely worse stuff than any ink in the fabric already... but people are going to of course.  We let discharge prints go out the door anyways and it has never been a problem.  Just sayin'.   

I will also say that we need to work on our packing materials and put some lit in there directing people to wash first and some wash instructions just for that one person who will actually follow them.

I do understand all this.. HOWEVER, it seems that all the discharge manufacturers tell you to wash before wearing, and the waterbase/plastisol guy's dont... so right there is pretty cya for me...

should/could/would is all hindsight after somebody has a bad reaction...

add in the fact that many of our customers are picky on consistent print color, and it's a receipe for disaster with discharge...  (we do have many customers that are fine with that, but I'm looking for solutions for the rest of them)...

[brandon]

Yes, for us discharge underbase for HSA inks and plastisol as well. So easy to run and to clean. And just amazingly soft and smooth prints. And the brightest white ever in my book. At this point in the game I think all ink companies are putting out great product. Just go with what you are comfortable with and what you can actually get. I'm sure the Matsui is killer. They have been in this game a long time now

[noortrd]

Discharge not run on polyester . ANy best water base for migration control