screen mesh from manual to auto...?

[whitewater]

I did do a search and don't think I answered my question...

So going from manual printing to an auto in july..I am going to get some retensionable screens..trying to figure on the mesh counts...I'm going to have to slowely add screens to the shop..

So the question is:

If i use a 110 on white ink on black garment, what do I use for auto?  and so on...

Looking from everyones expierence on this...I'm sure I will get different answers on this..

If i use a 110 on manual, 230 on auto?  Just something like that...

thanks

[GraphicDisorder]

Really depends on the print.  But we never use 110s anymore, a lot of 230/196/158. 

[Binkspot]

We run everything from 110-355 but try to stay between 150-230. It really depends on what your printing on and with and what and works best for you.

[3Deep]

Some people say never use a 110 manual or auto, I disagree I use them on both machines, and yes like Brandt stated depends on the print.  Your going find out what works for you in your shop might not work for others in there shop...loose screens tight screen etc.

Darryl

[ScreenFoo]

I'd try going up a mesh count from what you'd use on the manual. 

If you're switching to rollers across the board, you could probably do that on the manual too--30-40 N/cm is worlds away from the 10-20 on most statics.

[alan802]

It all depends on the amount of ink you're trying to deposit.  A 110 will deposit a certain amount of ink depending on many variables and that ink deposit really shouldn't change from manual to auto as long as the only thing that changes is the one doing the printing.  If you are using 110's on the manual and you decide to go up to 230's then you'll be depositing a lot less ink.  The auto can print through a 230 much easier than you can on the manual, but that doesn't and shouldn't change the goal you are trying to achieve with the print.  If you want to go with higher mesh counts on the auto, then you might need to adjust your stencil thickness to keep the ink deposits roughly the same, and that could take a good bit of experimenting and some tools to measure that stuff with.  Most manual printers use multiple print strokes and if you add higher mesh counts along with less print strokes with the auto (you should strive to never double stroke on the auto, it will happen but just try to keep it to a minimum) then your ink deposits will be significantly less.  Now you have to understand that sometimes a thinner ink deposit can look good but the objective when printing on dark garments is to completely cover the shirt fibers and get the ink to look opaque, and the thickness of the ink deposit is what dictates the opacity of a print, for the most part.  Thinner ink deposit typically means less opacity, there are other things that can affect opacity and it is possible to have a thinner deposit of ink actually look more opaque than the thicker deposit, and that is the overall goal of many printers.  To get the most opacity out of the thinnest deposit of ink to yeild a good looking print is what we are all after, well, most of us who want to have the best quality prints that we can.

I'm just rambling, I don't know if any of that helps or just makes it worse.

[Dottonedan]

In general printing, basic flat colors, we didn't use a 110 at all. The only time a 110 came out was on special effect inks. I liked 110'd coated 4-6 times for a High puff for example. I have had good image definition and as high as 1/4th " in height.

We also stacked puff 2 layers for sim embroidery. One for height and one for detail.

[Inkworks]

We generally go on mesh finer on the auto.

manual:auto
110:156
156:200
200:230
230:300

[ZooCity]

I really like what alan said, I had suspected as much and I think his response confirms that, ideally, there should be very little or no change.  We don't double stroke anything on the manual that wouldn't also require a double hit on the auto- just metallics and such -although we do run a second dry stroke occasionally when a screen with thicker ink won't clear, but this is just operator error on press or in pre press and the same would go for the auto.

Like Alan said, nothing is really changing here, the auto is doing the exact same thing you are on the manual.  It's just doing it with robot instead of man arms.

Please don't take this as a soap box speech because I am far from qualified to make this statement but I'm saying it anyhow: from my observations, if you need a  standard thread 110 on the manny to recreate the deposit of a 156 on the auto something is wrong.  I may well be  wrong and somebody correct me if I am but if I were to ask the same question and be told to move up from our 150/48 manual to 180/48 auto (next count up for us) I would not believe for a second that those two ink deposits would be similar just as they are not on the manual.

everything I just said hinges on the assumption of the auto press' ability to adjust to and then then hold the necessary parameters for accurate printing.  it may well be that some machines cannot do that and the mesh changes are appropriate to compensate.

Sent from my intelligent phone-a-majigger.

[Dottonedan]

To support Zoo and Alan, When working at my last screen print facility, we sampled EVERYTHING on a manual. A M&R Chameleon


Once approved, we ran it on the Auto with everything being identical. Screens, seps, colors, squeegee's etc. The only thing to do on the auto was to match the approved manual print.

[Chadwick]

I've never run an auto.
I've sent tons of art/seps out that were.
I was very uncertain at first, because, well, I know how to sep for me printing on a manual.
There may have been a couple missteps along the way, but,
everything I've seen of my printed seps turns out as best I could hope on the autos.
( I'm not there to tweak anyting, it's do or die )

Hence, I have to agree with everyone here.
If you've got the auto running properly, and your manual method was proper in the first place,
you should be golden.

You mentioned changing up to retens..
There's a learning curve there which will add another variable in.
It's all good, but be aware of it while you figure everything else out.

Giver hell.
Cheers.

[whitewater]

Thanks everyone!  good points for me to start from..