New Manual shop what do you think?

[im_mcguire]

First off, if I could, I would start auto, but it’s not in the cards at the moment.
I’m going to be leaving my shop next year to do my own venture. I’m looking into buying a full shop setup.

So far here is what I’ve got quoted:
8/6 manual Riley Hopkins with side clamps, but also looking at the Anatol as well
Forced air flash
Forced air BBC dryer
Epson t3200
Washout
Dip tank
Led exposure unit
Inks and screens

My budget is $25k before electrical runs.
Would you all do something different with the $25k? With my current clients, I’m looking at probably outgrowing this setup in about 24 months to which I would sell it and get my auto.

I haven’t had much luck on the used market for 8 colors, so that’s the reason I’d be buying new...

[Rockers]

In early 2000 we used to have a Riley Hopkins with Joystick. After that experience I would not purchase a press of them again. I think Vastex probably got the best manual presses out there.

[brandon]

We you get an auto you will have to get a new dryer as well to keep up.

[im_mcguire]

We you get an auto you will have to get a new dryer as well to keep up.

Yes, this is the only piece right now I’m thinking I may throw more $ into this area knowing we will be upgrading.

[abchung]

is it still price competitive to manually print an eight colour job?

why not an Antec?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[blue moon]

We started with $6k. Bought a 6 color manual, dryer, flash and everything else we needed. 6 months later, we bought an auto and our total investment was $25k.

Any money invested in a manual and a dryer for it will have very limited value later on. Anything bought new, will be worth a lot less the moment you pick it up.

Due to COVID, many places are closing and the euipment is becoming redailly available at very good prices.
My guess is for $25k you can get into a decent auto setup.
Start buying the screens and all the little things right now so when it’s time to get the expenve stuff thats where all your money will go.
Also consider leasing the auto. While $100 per week might seem like a lot to spend when starting, it makes more sense in the long run.

The most important thing though in all of this is sales though. Were will you be geting those?
Without them, your equipment does not matter.

Pierre

[BrazosDesigns]

I am probably in the minority, but I'd seriously look at an Antec Legend 6/6 or 8/8 for your manual press.  When I use the manual I am glad I bought the Antec.  Dual point head locks in for great registration, all heads down in case you need several people to jump in and help, and it is lighter and easier to turn.  Previously had a 6/6 M&R Sidewinder and when I had to get on that and do a 3 or more color job, I was worn out just turning the thing!

[3Deep]

This has been so many years ago, but we started out with a 4/4 hopkins press then moved to a 4/6 workhorse, still have the 4/6 workhorse alone with an auto now, but I don't think you can out grow an 8/8 might work you to death if your orders get really big.  P is right you might can get your hands on some really good used equipment right now for a good price, but if your going new Anatol makes a good manual press with all the bell and whistles.

[blue moon]

I am probably in the minority, but I'd seriously look at an Antec Legend 6/6 or 8/8 for your manual press.  When I use the manual I am glad I bought the Antec.  Dual point head locks in for great registration, all heads down in case you need several people to jump in and help, and it is lighter and easier to turn.  Previously had a 6/6 M&R Sidewinder and when I had to get on that and do a 3 or more color job, I was worn out just turning the thing!

Totally agree, Legend is possibly best manual on the market!

Pierre

[Croft]

I would look for a M&R chameleon with side clamps BUT be sure to get air clamps that made such a difference over all presses I have had before at different shops, any screener I hire can't imagine going back to screw down screen clamps.

[zanegun08]

If I were doing this, I'd get a better dryer up front, especially if you want to do discharge or water base as you'll quickly outgrow that dryer.

I'd personally just get a 6/4 press.  I personally hate side clamps and I think there are more points for failure on registration on them, as well as you want to do some custom oversize print?  Too bad, you can't load anything larger than a 23x31 or 25x36 depending on the press.

The reason is if you are going to be a one man business, you should only spend time printing the lucrative jobs, which I think are simple low color, low to mid quantity jobs.  Yes you can print a 200 piece 8 color, but you shouldn't as it would take you all day, when you could send an email off to a contractor, and then be spending time getting more orders, printing easier jobs, and building your network.

I'd save some money on the press and use that to buy some heat presses, hat heat press, printers for printing shipping labels.  Also if you want to do this for the long haul, I'd finance a better dryer, and have your goal to be in a year you pay it off and then move that payment into a smaller auto.

Between transfers, direct to garment, subbing out orders, I don't think high color manuals make sense unless you need to do samples for high volume runs.  Also the large manuals are expensive!  Save some money, spend it elsewhere, and then you'll be forced to sub out for higher color work which you don't really want to do manually, just because you can, doesn't mean you should!

[im_mcguire]

If I were doing this, I'd get a better dryer up front, especially if you want to do discharge or water base as you'll quickly outgrow that dryer.

I'd personally just get a 6/4 press.  I personally hate side clamps and I think there are more points for failure on registration on them, as well as you want to do some custom oversize print?  Too bad, you can't load anything larger than a 23x31 or 25x36 depending on the press.

The reason is if you are going to be a one man business, you should only spend time printing the lucrative jobs, which I think are simple low color, low to mid quantity jobs.  Yes you can print a 200 piece 8 color, but you shouldn't as it would take you all day, when you could send an email off to a contractor, and then be spending time getting more orders, printing easier jobs, and building your network.

I'd save some money on the press and use that to buy some heat presses, hat heat press, printers for printing shipping labels.  Also if you want to do this for the long haul, I'd finance a better dryer, and have your goal to be in a year you pay it off and then move that payment into a smaller auto.

Between transfers, direct to garment, subbing out orders, I don't think high color manuals make sense unless you need to do samples for high volume runs.  Also the large manuals are expensive!  Save some money, spend it elsewhere, and then you'll be forced to sub out for higher color work which you don't really want to do manually, just because you can, doesn't mean you should!

I’m going to take the advice and look into a bigger dryer for sure. Beside printing for our own clients, we have an apparel company ourselves that we plan to make ourselves one of our biggest clients.

What it really comes down to is this:
We started printing and learned it was something we love. I myself gained multiple clients in the $100k plus per year, and our shop struggles. It’s mainly due to the way the owners of the company I work for now manage their shop.
We aren’t growing, we aren’t reinvesting, we will not be prepared for future technologies that I feel will be necessary for a successful shop to operate.

I’ll be taking a handful of my clients and continuing doing what I do, but more or less focus on my brand and growing that. I love printing, I am willing to grind to get what I need, and I know what I want.

I absolutely have no doubt that I will be quickly upgrading all of the manual equipment as fast as possible. I have a 6 month time frame while my building is finished being built. So I’ll keep an eye out, and reach out to some people to put some feelers out there for some decent used equipment.

Thanks for all of the input everyone!

[RICK STEFANICK]

I would start with a used older M/R gauntlet which you can find for little more than a manual that's worth buying. And dryer upfront that will keep up. There is no way you will be happy, rested or competitive without a auto. seriously it should be a no brainer and if its not right now.... reality will set in the first 6c/ 500 unit order on black with a under base , highlight white and silver metallic flashing 3 times. With 25 k you can defiantly start out with a small auto..

[Nation03]

I got my first auto for 10k and it came with a flash and compressor. it sucked, but it still paid for itself quickly and gave me the ability to do bigger orders without dying. I sold it for $7500 and then financed a demo model M&R press which is 10x better than what I had. But still, if it wasn't for that first auto, I would've never built the confidence or the business to get the second one.

[Sbrem]

If I were doing this, I'd get a better dryer up front, especially if you want to do discharge or water base as you'll quickly outgrow that dryer.

I'd personally just get a 6/4 press.  I personally hate side clamps and I think there are more points for failure on registration on them, as well as you want to do some custom oversize print?  Too bad, you can't load anything larger than a 23x31 or 25x36 depending on the press.

The reason is if you are going to be a one man business, you should only spend time printing the lucrative jobs, which I think are simple low color, low to mid quantity jobs.  Yes you can print a 200 piece 8 color, but you shouldn't as it would take you all day, when you could send an email off to a contractor, and then be spending time getting more orders, printing easier jobs, and building your network.

I'd save some money on the press and use that to buy some heat presses, hat heat press, printers for printing shipping labels.  Also if you want to do this for the long haul, I'd finance a better dryer, and have your goal to be in a year you pay it off and then move that payment into a smaller auto.

Between transfers, direct to garment, subbing out orders, I don't think high color manuals make sense unless you need to do samples for high volume runs.  Also the large manuals are expensive!  Save some money, spend it elsewhere, and then you'll be forced to sub out for higher color work which you don't really want to do manually, just because you can, doesn't mean you should!

If however, you have a manual on your mind, if you have a 4 station unit, you can have a loader and unloader, and go damn fast for a single color print, 300 per hour plus. For multi-color, a loader/unloader will suffice. At my old shop a hundred or so years ago, we printed thousands of shirt this way, which got us the auto. But as said, with an auto, you need far more drying capacity. So if you can, get a bigger dryer, gas preferably, and when it's time for an auto, which you will love, your dryer will be able to handle it.

Steve