Author Topic: LED vs MH - I know I know.....  (Read 2448 times)

Offline Bearded Lady

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LED vs MH - I know I know.....
« on: December 28, 2016, 06:51:41 PM »
Sorry to bring this up. I realize this has been covered several times and the topic can get contentious.  I feel like I have a specific circumstance and thought I'd just throw it out there. Y'all seem like bunch of knowledgeable printing nerds(in a good way!!).  I've read through the thread from last may.  My back kind of hurts now from sitting at my computer reading all of it.......  but here goes.

I've been screen printing for nearly 20 years. I built my first exposure unit with household fluorescent bulbs.  went through various used units.  Bought a used Olec AL53 more than 10 years ago and still use it.  It works just fine and I might stick with it.  BUT.......I'm moving into a new and very small space next month and thought about switching to an LED exposure unit.  I mostly print on paper with water based inks. some manual but mostly on an auto- 25x38 M&R saturn.  I probably avg 1200-1500 impressions per week- sometimes double that and some weeks I don't even turn the press on.  I print even smaller volume with textiles(a few hundred shirts per week- max) with a fairly even split between water based and plastisol inks.  all manual.  and again some weeks I don't even turn my dryer on.  Just trying to get the point across that I do not print high volume. I'm one of the teeny shops. just me and a couple of part timers.

The biggest issue in making my decision is due to the lack of larger sized LED units on the market right now.  My largest frames are 42"x50"- OD.  The only manufacturer I can find that makes an LED unit to fit this sized frame is Lawson.  I have seen that m&r is making a large unit now but its CTS. I work with a lot of fine artists making limited edition prints and I would like to continue using film positives to have the ability to make handmade marks on them.  I've never used or been around any Lawson equipment.  Any opinions on their stuff?

I've never used an LED unit.  The concept of less amps and less heat are the biggest draw for the small shop space I'm moving to. But I'm very concerned about how hardy my stencils will be when running 500 pieces on the auto flatbed press. With my current screen room set up, if there is a too much humidity before or after exposure, my screens can become sticky once I pour a qt of water based ink on it and start running a job (sticky on the print side of the stencil).  This causes the paper to stick to the back of the screen, despite the vacuum bed.  This is obviously avoidable with climate control but my point is that if this happens with a 5k MH, I fear it could be worse with LED.  I'm in Austin, TX btw.  it's warm and humid most of the year.

I also realize that there can be issues retaining detail with a multi-point light source due to under-cutting but I don't tend to find printers complaining about that as much as I do with the problem of achieving a fully cured stencil/ or at least hardy enough stencil to make it through a run on an auto press. especially with water based ink products.  Am I correct on that?

I currently use chromaline CP tex- "water resistant" direct diazo emulsion. coated 2/2 with the sharp edge.  but i'm not married to that product or coating technique.  I run exposures on time not LU.  about 220 sec for a 305 yellow mesh.  150 sec for a white 156.  I don't care if the LED were to take less or more time than this.  I generally move pretty slow with most things in life.

Sorry again if this is an annoying subject to bring up.  Any input is much appreciated.

Cheers!

-josh


Offline ZooCity

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Re: LED vs MH - I know I know.....
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2016, 08:26:02 PM »
If you have the space and amperage for the Olec  I would stick with that and spend your money on a fresh bulb if you don't have one in there at the moment.  You are already underexposing by the sound of it or maybe not drying enough pre and post expo. 

*As a side note, have you tried using a reclaimable hardener on your screens?  It makes a difference with flatstock imo.

LED arrays work for most textile printing but I can see walls getting hit if you are printing flatstock and like your fine detail.  Collimated light with the right spectrum and strength cannot be beat by narrow spectrum, diffuse light.  All the more true if you like diazos. 

This is coming from using both.  We went LED to drop amperage load and free up amps for other devices, no other reason.  My trusty Olecs are waiting to go back into service next chance we get to upgrade electrical.   LED is inferior tech in every way but power consumption. 

Does it work for us doing 99.999% textiles with diazo emulsions?  Yep.  Do I like it over MH?  Nope.

Offline Maxie

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Re: LED vs MH - I know I know.....
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2016, 05:58:49 AM »
I took my home made exposure table that was using fluorescents.      Removed the lamps and put a Saati led lamp (they have more than one model) close to the floor in the box.
I'm using PHU and getting a good, well exposed screen.     I can exposed two at a time.
Maxie Garb.
T Max Designs.
Silk Screen Printers
www.tmax.co.il

Offline Doug S

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Re: LED vs MH - I know I know.....
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2016, 08:18:25 AM »
I've only had experience with one of the first led units from lawson so I can't speak for the other units.  It's sitting in the corner unused because of the lack of detail I could get.  I'm using the amerigraph 150 that Brandt gave me.  I'll admit, I bought into that technology before really knowing what the outcome would be.  Like said here before, if all you were printing was standard spot prints, the lawson should be fine but if you are really wanting detail stay away unless their units have really been improved.  I'm not posting this to bash a company.  I'm just speaking from my experience.
It's not a job if you love doing it.

Offline Bearded Lady

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Re: LED vs MH - I know I know.....
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2017, 06:00:10 PM »
Thanks y'all.  You helped me to decide to just keep my current unit.

Offline GraphicDisorder

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Re: LED vs MH - I know I know.....
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2017, 06:35:49 AM »
I've only had experience with one of the first led units from lawson so I can't speak for the other units.  It's sitting in the corner unused because of the lack of detail I could get.  I'm using the amerigraph 150 that Brandt gave me.  I'll admit, I bought into that technology before really knowing what the outcome would be.  Like said here before, if all you were printing was standard spot prints, the lawson should be fine but if you are really wanting detail stay away unless their units have really been improved.  I'm not posting this to bash a company.  I'm just speaking from my experience.

That sucker still truckin' along?
Brandt | Graphic Disorder | www.GraphicDisorder.com
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Offline Doug S

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Re: LED vs MH - I know I know.....
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2017, 09:35:36 AM »
It's running exposing like a champ.  Thanks again!
It's not a job if you love doing it.

Offline GraphicDisorder

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Re: LED vs MH - I know I know.....
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2017, 09:38:26 AM »
It's running exposing like a champ.  Thanks again!

Fantastic!
Brandt | Graphic Disorder | www.GraphicDisorder.com
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