Wilflex PC's Shifting Lighter on a Base

[sqslabs]

Wow, thanks for all the responses and suggestions, I'll definitely be putting everything to use in dialing in the issue.  To answer the questions asked, the top colors are getting printed through a 225S and we are using a separate top white screen.

The gray base is an interesting suggestion, and I can definitely see how that could help. Mixing a darker color, although I get the idea, requires either a really good initial guess in how the color is going to shift, or a re-mix which can put a stop to production if the job is already on press. I guess I just figured that a plastisol mixing system would be a bit more RFU and print closer to the way our standard bucket colors do right out of the gate.  Helps me to remember just how technical what we do really is, and that there isn't a one size fits all solution to getting ink on a shirt. 

I got the PC system mainly for sim process work as we were getting a lot of it at the time and paying a local ink distributor to mix quarts way too often. It does take a bit longer to mix than I'd like and maybe the EQ's would have been a better bet.  Leave it to me to always go for the options with the "most control" only to find out it was completely unnecessary for our shop. 

Of course once we had the system and our sim work was starting to look decent, the orders switched to oversized high-color pantone-spec'd spot designs with huge underbases and now we're figuring out how to deal with that new challenge. I guess life gives you what you need! 

In regards to the underbase white, we're currently experimenting with NexGen Cotton White but are having some dryer temp and belt speed issues that I'd like to eliminate before we fully make the switch.  I'm really happy with what we've seen so far though in regards to brightness, print speed, and (lack of) after flash tack.  We're bringing in a tech this month who knows our dryer inside and out to finally get the issues buttoned up which will give me a lot more confidence when it comes to house ink changes.

[tonypep]

Not nec new news. Way back in the day and for a long time Nike required all their colors to be submitted on white swatch and black with a UB. Formulas for the same colors were different ie stronger on the UB

[ZooCity]

We mix Epic PC colors at maximum pig load to start and then base back as desired.  When we first brought the system in, the standard formulas were all reading very light and washed out on white Ts or over white base, upping the pigment solves it.   Just clone the formula and copy/paste the "min base" figure into your user formula.   

QCM used to and I think Rutland also does have formulas for use on white, I believe they were called "white plate" formulas or something. 

In my eyes, the PC system has three main benefits: ultimate control, ability to mix Performance inks and cost savings. 

[Colin]

At QCM I was making the white plate formulas.  We were still adding to it when Rutland bought us.

I have not seen any formulas to date in Rutlands mixing system that are for white plates.

Needing to maximize pigment load for opacity is normal and has been normal for decades.  Even then.... you will need to adjust....

Welcome to the creation of your own custom library

[sqslabs]

We mix Epic PC colors at maximum pig load to start and then base back as desired.  When we first brought the system in, the standard formulas were all reading very light and washed out on white Ts or over white base, upping the pigment solves it.   Just clone the formula and copy/paste the "min base" figure into your user formula.   

Just wanted to update the thread.  We did some experimentation today using the formula straight from the IMS software, and then using the above method, and using a higher pigment load definitely solved the problem with the color we used today. The results were night and day different, and we finally got the opacity we were looking for.  Thanks ZooCity!

[ZooCity]

Anytime!

[pcshone]

Hi All

White under bases do have an effect on the more transparent colours - try knocking back the bright whites with a bit of black and the under base will become more neutral - thus less light will refract through the over laid colour - if blues are causing the major problem in a print sequence - add a little bit of blue to under base white - just enough to take the brightness out of the under base white ?


Philip Collins-Shone
Area Sales Manager, EMEA Specialty Inks and Polymer Systems
PolyOne Corporation
Philip.collins-shone@polyone.com

[RICK STEFANICK]

]The problem I see is your at max..load level and they were tested on 156 mesh on white.. printing over a base you cant drop your mesh to 156 unless your planning on flashing every color.

[ZooCity]

]The problem I see is your at max..load level and they were tested on 156 mesh on white.. printing over a base you cant drop your mesh to 156 unless your planning on flashing every color.

And there's the rub. 

Max pig loading = better color rendition over base but worse wet on wet performance.  Toss in additional ink film thickness and some colors just have to be flashed to match correctly over a base.

Phillip's suggestion is excellent, we've variously based back white ub's and/or used greys for problem areas like this.  Sometimes it's the only fix.

[Admiral]

One awful print we were doing (with t-shirts and hoodies in the order of course) had a darker than scarlet red and a dark maroon.  The only way we could end up getting the color correct was first with a white base then grey base, then the colors.  It took trying a few different Pantones as well.

Just tinting our regular low bleed white would probably be the best option - there was grey in the print though hence that order.  Everything took precise squeegees, strokes, flashing, etc. 

[Rockers]

Hi All

White under bases do have an effect on the more transparent colours - try knocking back the bright whites with a bit of black and the under base will become more neutral - thus less light will refract through the over laid colour - if blues are causing the major problem in a print sequence - add a little bit of blue to under base white - just enough to take the brightness out of the under base white ?


Philip Collins-Shone
Area Sales Manager, EMEA Specialty Inks and Polymer Systems
PolyOne Corporation
Philip.collins-shone@polyone.com

I assume the same will work for purple inks. But what do you do in case the underbase has to cover or better underbase two different colors ?

[pcshone]

Use the grey - it is more neutral across the colour palette  - the key is to reduce the brightness of the under base so the light does not reflect back through the colour. Grey under bases work particularly well when dealing with multiple colour ways of garments with the same print on them.


Philip Collins-Shone
Area Sales Manager, EMEA Specialty Inks and Polymer Systems
PolyOne Corporation
Philip.collins-shone@polyone.com