Solar power

[TCT]

Anyone here use solar power to subside some or all of your power? I knew solar had come a long way but still didn't consider it for the shop.

We had a solicitation last week from a solar power installation company. Something about us being in a impoverished/economic development/crappy neighborhood. There was a low interest loans available and even some grants available along with other incentives for putting money into the neighborhood. I knew this was accurate because the neighborhood worked with us when we first bought the building and rehabed it, not letting it become condemned. So I let them come out and give me an estimate look over my electricity bills and see what they could do.

To my surprise, not even using our entire roof and only using them at something like an 85% good day or whatever they call it. They said we could subsidize 95% of our full electricity bill in the summer and something like 130% of it in the winter time. Yeah a 130% means they pay us extra money every month for whatever we don't use. He said we'd also probably see more considering the fact that we don't operate on the weekends and don't have any power draw in the evening. He also said it would eliminate our demand charge, which is a huge portion of our bill. On top of all that I would get $1900 dollars a year for 20 years as a check from the power company even if I sell the building for installing the system.

Here's the kicker $77,000 for full install from his company, I'm looking to get quotes from 2 other company is but I never even thought it was something that would be viable in a industrial scenario like ours, using flashes, compressors and such all the time.

Anybody else have any experience with this or look into it at all?

[Colin]

I have no knowledge of the real ins and outs of this......

But I am waiting and reading whatever it is you post so I can learn more!

Did they tell you the longevity of the solar panels?  Maintenance/upkeep?

[jvieira]

I spoke with a couple companies early in the year about getting solar panels. 11.000€ investment would save us 150€/month (at best). It should take us less than 6 years to recoup. We're paying 0,19€/kw

Unfortunately no subsidies around here. I'm probably waiting another year. It's our third largest bill after salaries and rent

[TCT]

Did they tell you the longevity of the solar panels?  Maintenance/upkeep?

They are saying the life of the panels is 40 years. Obviously they can't prove this, but if we stay in our current location 5 more years I would be amazed. The maintenance is once a year go up with a hose and give 'em a spraying. My location(in a old neighborhood, very mixed, but lots of residential) I have the tallest roofs from my neighbors, plus we are on a corner, and no trees block the ideal direction. I belive they quoted us on like 89 panels, we could of done 115 or so, but I guess currently the yearly check the power company gives for going solar maxes out at 89 panels.

One other cool thing I didn't know is that in a urban setting these days they no longer use huge battery banks. It ask feeds into a monitoring device then into your supply from the power company. Whatever you don't use(weekends, holidays, or a 4 day work week, or just surplus) goes back to the grid. The power company has to pay us the same per Kw that they charge us.

It all sounds really nice, until you think what $77k could buy in terms of a CTS and dryer! As of right now it would save us about $900/month on electricity in the summer and in the winter any extra over our bill would pay down our gas bill(same company). If I continue to install LED lights in the rest of the shop and a few more motion activated light switches, we would save even more. Then have it pay down some gas bill in the summer!

Now the big obstacle is contacting all the community programs with loans and grants. Which for me personally, is almost not with $77k!

I'll keep updating if it when things progress, but if anyone else has some solar insight please share it!

[blue moon]

find out about the efficiency of the panels they are installing. There is a rather large variance. Better ones will produce more electricity, but will also cost more. You need to find the current best bang for the buck (it goes up every year as they get better and better).
Also, last time I checked, which was quite a while back, the life expectancy was 25 year, 30 max. They could be better now, but my guess would be they are stretching it a little. Get the info on the panels they are selling and verify it on the manufacturer's web site.

Then ask them for the info on the sun availability and cross check it with some published data. If they are fudging the available sunlight by 10% you could be in the hole with your final check.

so, efficiency, longevity, light availability should be confirmed. . .

pierre

[Gilligan]

Guess who knows a little about solar panels as well.

There are a LOT of variables in this system and it's likely you can cut their estimates by a large amount.  Finding someone knowledgeable (way more than me), that you TRUST is key in this.

I looked at it with my building as my brother was under the impression the benefits for businesses were greater than residential.  As I suspected, that wasn't correct.  But his guy was honest with me.  There were programs that we didn't qualify that would have helped... but not qualifying for them is kind of a problem.

Residentially speaking here in Louisiana right now (they are trying to kill these incentives)... you can get 80% back via tax breaks.

It never REALLY pays you to generate TOO much juice as the company doesn't pay you what you pay, they pay you what THEY pay, which isn't all that much.  Ideally you want to basically average about 90% of your needs or so.  You will still pay and not be 100% sufficient with them, but you won't be paying for more equipment then what you really need.

There are a lot of online calculators and forums (guys like us) that will give you a LOT of real deal information on the subject.

It's not a bad thing... BUT some of these guys will over promise and under deliver (like most sales people).

[mooseman]

I am not big on anything green except for money. Alternative energy is a cyclic fad, yes a fad. Here is the catch 22....there isn't enough consumer demand or incentive for the market to flourish. So I think what you get is niche taggers that want to capitalize on a government program and butter that over on the consumer to sell a product. Technology and competition that really commercialize a market will never happen until there is big consumer demand and folks just aren't lining up to free energy from the heavens.
 
Allow me some examples

Electric cars, flex fuel cars took a long time to really become a common consumer ready product. Driven by the gas crisis this product  caught a foothold. Now however gas $ are down and the big 3 are all reporting up swings in gas guzzling land cruisers.
My guess is Toyota is ramping up on their big a$$ trucks and unplugging some of the juice flowing to the Prius.

Allow me another example we will all get........DTG the next revolution in the screen printing industry, enough said there.

If I were going to get into a big investment in solar or any green energy product I would certainly wait until the next clown gets the keys to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.  

mooseman

[Gilligan]

But solar has been mainstream since Carter.

The government has a national guard depot around the corner from me... It's COVERED with solar panels!

It's bigger than you might think.

[Gilligan]

http://goo.gl/maps/ewI8G

[Audifox]

Anyone here use solar power to subside some or all of your power? I knew solar had come a long way but still didn't consider it for the shop.

We had a solicitation last week from a solar power installation company. Something about us being in a impoverished/economic development/crappy neighborhood. There was a low interest loans available and even some grants available along with other incentives for putting money into the neighborhood. I knew this was accurate because the neighborhood worked with us when we first bought the building and rehabed it, not letting it become condemned. So I let them come out and give me an estimate look over my electricity bills and see what they could do.

To my surprise, not even using our entire roof and only using them at something like an 85% good day or whatever they call it. They said we could subsidize 95% of our full electricity bill in the summer and something like 130% of it in the winter time. Yeah a 130% means they pay us extra money every month for whatever we don't use. He said we'd also probably see more considering the fact that we don't operate on the weekends and don't have any power draw in the evening. He also said it would eliminate our demand charge, which is a huge portion of our bill. On top of all that I would get $1900 dollars a year for 20 years as a check from the power company even if I sell the building for installing the system.

Here's the kicker $77,000 for full install from his company, I'm looking to get quotes from 2 other company is but I never even thought it was something that would be viable in a industrial scenario like ours, using flashes, compressors and such all the time.

Anybody else have any experience with this or look into it at all?

Have you asked about expandable systems? There are systems out there that let you add more panels down the road (so you don't have to lay out 77K now)

[Binkspot]

i would be cautious about the weight of the rig on your roof and who is responsible if they damage the roof being an older building. I'm willing to bet it's not in perfect shape now. You may have a $10k bill hiring a engineer to see if the building can support the weight and snow load. It also may turn into a whole new roof.
Delaware gives a limited number of grants every year to offset the up front cost. Other then a few who have money to burn if you don't get the grant your not getting the solar because of the cost and 20 or so years to recoup the money. That $1900 over 20 years is only $40k you still have to make up the other $35k somewhere and honestly don't think your going to save that much to offset that.
Now if your doing it to be more green that's a whole different story.

[jvieira]

That $1900 over 20 years is only $40k you still have to make up the other $35k somewhere and honestly don't think your going to save that much to offset that.
Now if your doing it to be more green that's a whole different story.

We're talking $145/month for 20 years. It's definitely doable. We would do that with a 11.000€ (not dollars!) investment.

[TCT]

i would be cautious about the weight of the rig on your roof and who is responsible if they damage the roof being an older building. I'm willing to bet it's not in perfect shape now. You may have a $10k bill hiring a engineer to see if the building can support the weight and snow load. It also may turn into a whole new roof.
Delaware gives a limited number of grants every year to offset the up front cost. Other then a few who have money to burn if you don't get the grant your not getting the solar because of the cost and 20 or so years to recoup the money. That $1900 over 20 years is only $40k you still have to make up the other $35k somewhere and honestly don't think your going to save that much to offset that.
Now if your doing it to be more green that's a whole different story.

We have 2 roofs, well technically 3 I guess. One is from 1908, another is from 1948 and the last is from 2013. The one from 1948 we replaced when we bought the building, so roughly 2007. The one from 1908 is where the majority of the panels would go, so good question.

As for the "other $35K" I was thinking whatever loan we would have to get, the payment would be offset by us not having a electricity bill, so kind of saving us roughly $900/month.

It would need to make financial sense. While "being green" is a great sales gimmick, I like most Americans, ain't willing to shell out the extra $$$ 

[mk162]

i'd be surprised if you can generate the power you would need.  they will of course tell you that you can.  But I would be suspicious.  I've seen plenty of online complaints about the companies that do these since they get grants to install them, they will tell you anything you want to hear.

I have taken our bill from $900 a month to about $500 (summer to summer).  I replaced the AC unit in the office and replaced all of the lighting with LED.  Also put in motion switches or even light switches in rooms that don't get a ton of use.

switching to energy efficient appliances can make a HUGE impact.