why can't you print 4cp on darks?

[mk162]

I am working with a graphic designer right now that can't fathom why I don't want to print her job in 4CP on darks.  It's 6 colors already if you include the 2 whites.

Worst part is it's spot colors with a some fades from gray to dark gray.  I would never consistently hit 3 PMS color matches in large fills with any sort of consistency.  I should have lied and told her we would print it 4CP.

She won't even see the shirts ever, that is the kicker, so she won't know how it was printed.  Not to mention the group should have come directly to us since this art is fugly.  Well, maybe not fugly, but it's not that interesting.

[Sbrem]

If I'm presented with that, I tend to tell them exactly what I'm thinking, well, cleaned up a little. Let them know your reservations and why. I usually end up with, it will look fine, but it's very likely that you won't get your desired colors spot on. And every designer that is actually a designer, and not a self-described "graphic artist" should know that 4CP goes on white... I've gotten tired of being painted into a corner by boobs who don't understand.

Steve

I hope the monitors don't get mad the the "boobs" part.

[screenprintguy]

Steve, you are dead on brother!! It seems, anyone who is looking at cmyk on a computer thinks they should be able to see it on the shirt like that cmyk because the computer shows it. bla bla bla. Or they come from a paper printing background which duh, printing on white paper, and even that isn't always 100% dead on. Depending on quantity, we just push those types into sim process. We've paid top dollar to separators for 4cp seps that were supposed to be dead on for dark shirts, it's never exact, dont' get me wrong it can look good and all, but not exact. What I've experienced, even laying down a pfp of white ub, the 4cp inks are so translucent, it just doesn't look the same as being on a white shirt.

[mk162]

I know the older 4cp inks have a hard time printing on a white base.  it used to look really blotchy over solid bases.

halftoned bases look better, but it's still hard, and for what is a spot color job, why would 4cp even be mentioned.  It's the paper printing mentality.

[Sbrem]

I have customers that do know the difference, to a point, and still send me designs in 3 spot colors asking if it's CMYK...

Steve

[dynamikgraphics]

Printing processes are always difficult for the average customer to wrap their heads around, for some reason.

The best way I've been able to explain to people why FCP won't and CAN'T work on darks is by telling them imagine drawing a line with a yellow highligher on a white sheet of paper.
The line is bright and vibrant against the white. Then to imagine drawing a line with the same marker on a sheet of black construction paper. The line would not appear bright and vibrant, because the ink in the highlighter is translucent, causing the dark surface of the paper to bleed through.

Naturally, this problem in screen printing is solved using an underbase, however in the case of FCP, a new problem is created:

The process inks (which are highly reactive to the type of substrate on which they're being printed) are no longer being printed on white fabric, as they would be on a white tee shirt. They're being printed on a layer of dried white INK, and thus the FCP inks will react differently with one another than how they did when printed on the white fabric.

[Get Shirts]

We just had some luck with a 4cp on darks today. Definitely took longer to process than it should have, but it was rewarding regardless.

[Get Shirts]

Oh, and I should mention that the design is intentionally pixelated.

[Sbrem]

Oh, and I should mention that the design is intentionally pixelated.

To protect the innocent? We do a memorial shirt every year for golf tournament, and the front is always a picture of the young boy who passed. CMYK and 2 whites, always acceptable. They look very good as a rule; it's when people want colors nailed that the problems show up.

Steve

[tonypep]

Its possible.
Circa 2001

[tonypep]

Forgot to mention this was DC/4cp+white

[mk162]

My biggest problem was it is spot colors, very little blending.

[mimosatexas]

white first or last tony, and if last, how did you do the light areas of the wall (big block of white with the shadow/texture knocked out vs white first with the shadow texture on top)?

[tonypep]

The process is graphically dependant. Rarely do we separate the same way. Tricky print but its all about the synergy between the printer and the separator. White first.

[Sbrem]

The process is graphically dependant. Rarely do we separate the same way. Tricky print but its all about the synergy between the printer and the separator. White first.

looks great though, but too bad about the splatter... (hee hee) If this isn't too proprietary, is the white a negative of the CMYK sandwiched together? When I first did process work in the '80's we had this technique where we would stack the CMYK films, cut a ruby mask around the edges, and contact that onto reverse film, so that the white printer was made up of the spaces between the dots of the 4 films. It was for controlling dot gain, and was printed at the end...

Steve