Drag and Drop browser seps

[AdvancedArtist]

You know I always get blamed for fighting when I am telling the truth. When we first rolled out Corel Seps.. Oh my God we were blasphemers.

Disagreeing with you based facts and truth is not fighting with you Han. And of course now I am the evil Darth Vader building an EMPIRE! ROFLOL! to conquer HAN SOLO!

I am amazed at how you and this industry have turned this color stuff into some mystery of the AGES with the Wizard Programmers, the Mighty Pro Separators and Lords of High End Printing!

Have you ever just looked at simple rain bow.. Oh that is so deep. Ever applied white or black to a color oh oh oh that just so magical! Digital color 15, 15, 15, or 220, 45, 60 Oh my that is so difficult.

Fact is we not to far away from Gimp eating PhotoShop for breakfast as far as screen printing separations are concerned. Of course you would need to spend allot of time on research to understand that statement but do not worry the days of PS are coming to an end. Sort of like Kodak, who would have imagined. Wanna see the future just test drive Canva.

Oppps did I blaspheme again 

[DDSol]

Tom, I am okay with you telling the truth. I just want you to not tell it to me. Your 'truth' is irrelevant. You love open source, which is super. Enjoy. I have no problem with open source. Why would I? I just don't see how it has anything to do with "Drag and Drop browser seps", which is the topic of this thread.

As for "me and this industry"... I am now in 'cahoots' with an industry? A 'conspiracy', maybe? Thanks for letting me know, because it means have some secret meetings to arrange. This changes everything! Anyway, it's hard for us 'cahooters' to turn color into a mystery. Yeah, turning anything into a mystery is hard. It wasn't a mystery yesterday, so we have to mystify it somehow. You understand how this task is hard, since everyone already accepts it as demystified and all... It's like trying to make everyone believe the earth is flat again!

Gimp may or may not eat PS, for breakfast, lunch, dinner or whatever. How on earth is that relevant? Open source isn't special. The software is pretty well the same. Using Gimp for color separations is something I would personally discourage, but not because Gimp is crappy or not as good as PS or whatever, but because Gimp was not designed to do seps. Neither was PS. They are both the wrong tool. It's like using a screwdriver to drill a hole. It works, somewhat, but it takes forever and the result is not quite optimal. That said, whoever feels strongly about it should not take offense by my saying this. Instead they should do whatever they want and use the Gimp or their beloved PS. To each their own.

I myself only use OpenOffice instead of Microsoft's suites.  It's a matter of principal, although I personally don't like the ribbon interface.

As far as "seeing the future"... that turns out to be completely impossible. It violates causality. Maybe you've heard of time paradoxes? Well, maybe that's a little over your head... but whatever this "Canva" is, I am quite certain I cannot use it to see any 'future'. It may have impressive graphics abilities but seeing the future isn't one of them.

What exactly, btw, did you disagree with me on? I can't for the life of me figure it out.

I have an idea: Could you please vehemently disagree with me elsewhere? Maybe you can paint me black in a different thread at least? I think it's fine you blaspheme or whatever you do. Just don't force it on me please.

[AdvancedArtist]

Your right Han, I am a delusion conspiracy believer building my empire. But OS is the future Han...

How are you going to complete with this Han?

https://gmicol.greyc.fr/

I suppose, in this industry of screen printing there just might be 2 to 5 people that just might be able to comprehend that page perhaps you are one of them.

I am a wee bit occupied at the moment but the fact is with that OS script your 4 years of labor and 60K lines of code could be dominated and disposed of in less than a month or 2 or 3 months max.

It is 1000 times more powerful than anything in PhotoShop if you have the color understanding!

It is a free open source solution.. The color freak dream team cranking out open source.

[DDSol]

Okay, that link you posted points to a silly thing that can run filters on images.
On the server.
Why is that special? I really don't see the benefit of this system. Plus it's really ugly as well. And I have to scroll by selecting a subsection of the image... and not a random one, but one of 9 predefined sections.

All-in-all, it isn't sexy, or special, and we've seen this stuff for decades. It's not new, or ingenious.

2 to 5 people that just might be able to comprehend that page perhaps you are one of them

Well, I understand that page, yes. As I said, it renders on the server.

And lol on this:

It is 1000 times more powerful than anything in PhotoShop if you have the color understanding!

What this "it" is that you're referring to is unclear. If the "it" is open source, then you're comparing apples and camels. It's not PS vs OS. I mean it's like saying that the hybrid car industry is 1000 times more powerful than a Prius. Not sure what to make of this. And I don't see why it is required that one has "color understanding"... or what that even means. I mean, any 3 yr old that's not color blind will have color understanding.

But your most irksome statement is of course that my project could be 'dominated' in 2 or 3 months "max". I don't see how that would happen because first, there would need to be a whole pile of someones interested in building the thing.

And then there's the minor problem of doing that math stuff that's so hard. I mean, hard as in almost like gold digging: You may find gold just strolling along, but it's unlikely, and it's even hard to locate it with power tools, explosives, prospecting and all kinds of advanced techniques. Gold digging isn't necessarily a good way to get rich, so to say. It's far from easy. It's even a chance game.

It took me months of laying awake at night and building and tweaking dozens of prototypes to come to a formula that works, and works well.

Even though it is possible that someone else comes across this same thing, I consider it highly unlikely. So all the effort in the world with large OS armies, isn't going to come across a discovery that requires both dedication and luck. It's a very thankless job all the way up to the point where you hit pay dirt. And I'm talking months of nothing except huge piles of effort... no results, no reason to believe you'll get any results, and a lot of reason to give up.

So, open source is powerful, sure, and nice, yes. But it doesn't work well in situations where there's not a lot of people doing work on it. And as you said "there just might be 2 to 5 people that just might..." etc, that's not a lot of people. What's the percentage of those people that a) Have time b) Have programming skills and c) Have interest? Maybe 10% at best... so 5*10%=0.5 people are willing and able to work on it.

Not sure that this 0.5 person can pull it off in 2 or 3 months.

Or, to put it in different words: That link you put in here may be OS (I didn't look, actually), but it has 1 teensie issue:

It doesn't do simulated process seps.

And this is where my project is different. It does do seps.


And to use it requires zero "color understanding" beyond what anybody already can handle when they're 8 yrs old.


OS is by no means "the future". Things that are ubiquitous will likely run a lot of open source (Android), but things that are specialized require specialized knowledge and a lot of effort for a (relatively) small user base.


And I would like to note that your own open source solution is designed to make you money. You will let them have it for free, with the understanding that they will have trouble getting it up and running and you offer to do it for them for a sizable fee. You'll also offer proprietary plugins, I'm sure. Art packs maybe. Who knows what all you're planning, but the truth is you're planning to make money from it. It's a vehicle to get a lot of users. Paying users.


There's nothing wrong with that, of course. You have a business to run, ends to meet, etc, just like everyone else. Moreover, a lot of open source projects are designed to produce income in this very same way. There's a myriad of products that are free and open source up to a certain extent, but for more potent features, you need to pay. Take Riak for instance. If you want to run this in multiple data centers, you need to pay. A lot. A power outage at a data center will bring down your entire infrastructure, unless you pay the big bucks. The open source thing is a way to get massive adoption. Everybody knows about it. Everybody uses it. References galore. And it works, billions of dollars worth.


So much for "free". There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.


And to close, if someone can "dominate" my project in 2 or 3 months "max", then let them do it. The talk gets weary. I have yet to see a shred of it.

[AdvancedArtist]

Han the scripting language in that tool is magnificent it short cuts every aspect of pixel manipulation. It opens up any and every possible math you might want to run on digital color. Just hook it up to a GPU server with one of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_streaming or something like this http://aws.amazon.com/appstream/

It can be made to process seps very very easily it is a pixel math scripting language. Because the color engine is wide open that makes it, among many other young emerging open source solutions so powerful.

I really find it hard to believe that you cannot fathom what a tool like that scripting language really amounts too. I am glad we have had this discussion because we can revisit this in the not so distant future and time will tell if I was correct or incorrect. But the posts will be here and we can rewind in this very thread.

[DDSol]

Scripting languages don't do anything. It's the programs you write with them do do stuff. Any language that is Turing-complete can be used to make a program to run anything.

Moreover, by far most high level languages are extremely similar, choosing a paradigm such as procedural or functional and then implementing the same stuff as all the others in its class. For loops. While loops. If. Else. Function. Some syntactic sugar gets tossed over top and it may or may not have macro support. Awesome.

This means I can manipulate pixels in any language. As for GMIC, I took a minute or 2 to peek at its language, and it's very similar to what I've seen with ImageMagick/GraphicsMagick. Nothing interesting at all there.

And then there's this huge pile of bullcrap you dump by referencing "app streaming". The wiki article talks about only sending the necessary parts of an app to the client device, as in it runs on the client like any normal app. This has nothing at all to do with GMIC. The second link, to Amazon AppStream, is not the same thing at all. It involves doing all the rendering on a server and streaming video of the screen to the device. This is useful if the device can't render complex 3D stuff, such as games. OnLive started this, btw, not Amazon. It's a useful technology. It has nothing at all to do with GMIC. For one thing, GMIC cannot and will not run on the GPU. Therefore it seems mentioning the GPU is... uh... weird?

So, you mentioned that GMIC can be made to process seps "very easily" since it's a "pixel math scripting language". There's no such thing as pixel math. There's pixels and there's math. There's also no color engine in GMIC, although it is capable of transforming between various color spaces. It cannot do anything with color profiles, though. So the color engine isn't wide open. There is no color engine.

But it's not even relevant whether or not there is or isn't a color engine. As a matter of fact, I could probably make some script in GMIC to do color seps. This script could be extremely accurate, possible even fast. I could probably make it as a good as what I currently use.

This isn't, however, because GMIC is so miraculously incredible (or "Magic", as found in it's name, just like ImageMagick and GraphicsMagick), but because I have developed the algorithms for color seps. It's not GMIC that provides the solution, it is me... It's similar to when you write a program in VB for applications in Corel (such as SimpleSeps), it's not VB that provides the solution, it's you.

I can however guarantee that you cannot make GMIC sim-process-separate art "very very" easily. It's no easier than doing it in any other language. It can probably convert to HSB easily and inversion is also easy, so maybe your HSB/HSW/Whatever seps can be done quite simply in GMIC. But it's again not GMIC that makes it simple, it's the HSB seps you do that are simple to begin with.

So, it all comes down to that I can fathom what a tool like GMIC amounts to. I can also fathom that you have no idea what you're talking about. It's becoming very clear indeed.

Therefore time cannot tell whether or not you are correct. The things you talk about are convoluted, vague, and meaningless. You're not saying anything. I can't figure out where you're going with this.

But if I apply my best read-between-the-lines skills, you seem to simply attempt to discredit me (and in the process yammering such nonsense that I couldn't take you serious) and at the same time uplift the idea of Open Source so that you may sell a lot of OpenTShirt sites. I also think it's a prelude to you adding your web seps to OpenTShirts. You'll tout the openness of it all as the ultimate benefit. That it barely works is irrelevant. But even if it worked well, why does this mean you have to engage me with this nonsense?

I'm spending so much time trying to talk reasonably about the nonsense you're spewing. And the truth is, it's really not possible to do that.  As the verse says: Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you become like him.

And boy don't I feel stupid now. Allowing you to drag me into your whirlpool of nonsense yet another day.

So, it is indeed good that there is a record of this conversation. It will remind me to not be dragged into a conversation of this nature. I'm just hoping that it works.

I note that only you reply in this thread. Those with more wisdom have long left this thread. Only the sound of crickets and your nonsense remain. This is what I get for my folly.

I again request that you leave me out of it. If you feel threatened in any way, take it to your therapist. Please don't talk to me about pixel math. I know math, I know pixels, you need not explain to me. I'm good. I do not require your teachings. If I were to require teachings, I would not request them from you. I'm sure that you have better things to do. I know I do. Go do the better things. Tell your pack of PhDs to use pixel math engines. Build Open Source. Teach the industry about how wrong they are. Go ahead, but leave me out of it.