TSB
screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: dirkdiggler on October 27, 2013, 07:00:53 PM
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I did the demo, 56 seconds total to put a full size image on screen and expose in one step. Next on my list. Jawdropping!
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We did the demo also, mind blowing technology. The automated screen washout was in itself pretty cool as well.
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Price point?
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Probably a stupid question(I would assume the answer is Yes) but, anyone know if this puppy going to be at ISS Long Beach?
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68k! if I am not mistaken.
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68k! if I am not mistaken.
Yes, but for which? There are 6 models. 1,2 or 3 printheads & two sizes...
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Probably a stupid question(I would assume the answer is Yes) but, anyone know if this puppy going to be at ISS Long Beach?
Yes it will be at Long Beach.
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68k! if I am not mistaken.
Yes, but for which? There are 6 models. 1,2 or 3 printheads & two sizes...
3 printheads
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The three head I-Image-STE in the 26x36 format$71,500.00 plus $600.00 crate.
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The three head I-Image-STE in the 26x36 format$71,500.00 plus $600.00 crate.
The unit quoted will do 450 screens in an 8 hour time frame. This is not the unit for everyone. A one head does 150 and a two head will easily 300+.
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we love our i-image, I can only imagine how much someone would love one of these new units!!! ;D
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The three head I-Image-STE in the 26x36 format$71,500.00 plus $600.00 crate.
Rich,
Can you clarify that this list price includes the LED Exposure option and what exactly does STE stand for?
Thanks,
~Kitson
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The three head I-Image-STE in the 26x36 format$71,500.00 plus $600.00 crate.
Rich,
Can you clarify that this list price includes the LED Exposure option and what exactly does STE stand for?
Thanks,
~Kitson
It includes the exposure unit if you see the E in the name. E=exposure.
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I just saw this yesterday at the plant with Rich. HOLY COW! what a machine...it was done in no time and WOW...
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CTS is a fad. It will quickly blow away with the wind...
Laser printers, vellum and flourescent bulb exposure units are where it's at. Now where's my stapler so I can get back to stretching screens?
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CTS is a fad. It will quickly blow away with the wind...
Laser printers, vellum and flourescent bulb exposure units are where it's at. Now where's my stapler so I can get back to stretching screens?
Right next to your poster of RrrrrrrrWubyaBeee and your kitchen stove LOL.
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CTS is a fad. It will quickly blow away with the wind...
Laser printers, vellum and flourescent bulb exposure units are where it's at. Now where's my stapler so I can get back to stretching screens?
Alan- while I usually agree with you on things, I have to disagree here.... Rubylith, razors and black lights are where the industry is headed.... ;D
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CTS is a fad. It will quickly blow away with the wind...
Laser printers, vellum and flourescent bulb exposure units are where it's at. Now where's my stapler so I can get back to stretching screens?
Alan- while I usually agree with you on things, I have to disagree here.... Rubylith, razors and black lights are where the industry is headed.... ;D
Dont forget arc lamps!
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CTS is a fad. It will quickly blow away with the wind...
Laser printers, vellum and flourescent bulb exposure units are where it's at. Now where's my stapler so I can get back to stretching screens?
Alan- while I usually agree with you on things, I have to disagree here.... Rubylith, razors and black lights are where the industry is headed.... ;D
Dont forget arc lamps!
You lost me there Rich, that may be before my time...Um, I mean that may be a future technology I have yet to hear of.
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CTS is a fad. It will quickly blow away with the wind...
Laser printers, vellum and flourescent bulb exposure units are where it's at. Now where's my stapler so I can get back to stretching screens?
Alan- while I usually agree with you on things, I have to disagree here.... Rubylith, razors and black lights are where the industry is headed.... ;D
Dont forget arc lamps!
You lost me there Rich, that may be before my time...Um, I mean that may be a future technology I have yet to hear of.
great exposure technology except for the fact that the fumes would cause cancer. But in the future when the docs figure out how to cure the lung cancer it will be back!
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You know the light produced during welding that they tell you not to look at?
That's what carbon arc is.
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I had carbon arc till aprox 5 years ago when I got a msp 3140 from Long Beach Show. What a difference, love it. Thanks Rich.
Shane Marye
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fluorescent tubes are also considered arc lamps. fyi. there name is pretty self explanatory.
also, i didn't think lamps could cause cancer since most of them burn inside a sealed unit...maybe I am wrong though.
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Yea mine was the actual carbon arc rods style. 1/2" diameter each rod. produced a white light.
Shane
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fluorescent tubes are also considered arc lamps. fyi. there name is pretty self explanatory.
also, i didn't think lamps could cause cancer since most of them burn inside a sealed unit...maybe I am wrong though.
Carbon arc was not a lamp and was open rods. They gassed quite a bit.
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ahh, that makes sense.
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Carbon Arcs were also used for those giant 35MM projectors at the drive in and large movie houses to provide sufficient light in the 'right' spectrum to make Technicolor do it's thing.
Think Gone with the Wind and such in the 30's through the 50's.
My dad was in the airforce for 35 years and his day job was paymaster but in time of war his assignment was as projectionist, and it supposedly got him a top secret clearance.
He occasionally moonlighted at the local drive in theather while I was growing up so I inhaled my share of carbon arc fumes, I remember going to the drive in with him but seldom remember going home. Never could stay awake for the entire double feature!
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For those of us that weren't at sgia. Here's the factory video, absolutely awesome.
http://m.youtube.com/mrprinting?uid=AqfKMlk5dKajXz2c6zN3Uw&desktop_uri=%2Fmrprinting (http://m.youtube.com/mrprinting?uid=AqfKMlk5dKajXz2c6zN3Uw&desktop_uri=%2Fmrprinting)
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It looks awesome for sure.
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I don't ever seeing us being large enough to justify one, but it's a truly amazing system.
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I don't ever seeing us being large enough to justify one, but it's a truly amazing system.
think about it, no more outputting film, no more carrier sheets, no film purchase, no filing old art, no cleaning tape off carriers. eliminates all of those jobs. Even the 68k version, that's less than 1 minimum wage job with a 5 year finance, with no bitching, no laying out of work, no vacation time, no holiday pay, faster setup times with perfect registration. We are doing the math and strongly considering it.
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I don't ever seeing us being large enough to justify one, but it's a truly amazing system.
think about it, no more outputting film, no more carrier sheets, no film purchase, no filing old art, no cleaning tape off carriers. eliminates all of those jobs. Even the 68k version, that's less than 1 minimum wage job with a 5 year finance, with no bitching, no laying out of work, no vacation time, no holiday pay, faster setup times with perfect registration. We are doing the math and strongly considering it.
Are you REALLY eliminating that entire person? Yes, many tasks of an employee gets removed, but ot all of them.
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I don't ever seeing us being large enough to justify one, but it's a truly amazing system.
think about it, no more outputting film, no more carrier sheets, no film purchase, no filing old art, no cleaning tape off carriers. eliminates all of those jobs. Even the 68k version, that's less than 1 minimum wage job with a 5 year finance, with no bitching, no laying out of work, no vacation time, no holiday pay, faster setup times with perfect registration. We are doing the math and strongly considering it.
Are you REALLY eliminating that entire person? Yes, many tasks of an employee gets removed, but ot all of them.
I think you read too fast. He didn't say he was eliminating a person. He said it costs less than a minimum wage job.
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Right, meaning to do those task you would need to hire a person... Otherwise you aren't really saving any of that.
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I need to hire that person, so I would rather hire the machine, just the situation at MY shop, can't speak for others.
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Back to the point of being a big shop though.
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I need to hire that person, so I would rather hire the machine, just the situation at MY shop, can't speak for others.
It's sorta like when we bought an auto. As a two person shop we could have either bought an auto and have factors faster in output or hired a person to only mildly help increase print speed on the manual. The auto was not only cheaper than a employee but our output was drastically more.
Right, meaning to do those task you would need to hire a person... Otherwise you aren't really saving any of that.
If someone is already doing the process in his shop and it's a bottle neck then he can either hire someone additional to help speed it up or he can buy the machine at a cost less than a new employee and that same current process now has higher output.....with no new hire. The point at which this makes sense will not be the same in each shop as the way most shops staff is different even though we all do the basic same processes.
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I don't ever seeing us being large enough to justify one, but it's a truly amazing system.
<the discussion between you, digger and I starts here>
But the quote inside the above quote it is where the real discrepancy is.
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You guys know I've been doing a ton of research on this and my biggest problem right now is figuring out how it's going to affect our current staff/payroll. I know it's going to increase our production capability by a large margin, right away. But what about that void we will have, the free time on hand now that we've done 5 days worth of work normally, in 3 days? I don't mind cutting payroll at the benefit of the company, but I do feel responsible for keeping the guys busy and them get their hours in so they can pay bills. I'm looking too far into this but it's one of those things that I've thought about among many other things that may be affected. I know that most everything will be positively affected by adding CTS to the shop but I've seen a few things that might not work as well.
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Alan
you know I am big proponent of the DTS and streamlining. The only thing having a DTS will help is the bottom line. you will be able to do more with less and make more. I did a time study of film vs dts and I was amazed on how much time it really takes to do film even if you have them cataloged. it still takes time vs. dts. ours was about 3 min to 1. plus your exposure time is reduced, rinse out is fast ect. now adding in the LED. damn you are making screens in record time. Last week I was in Chicago and went to see M&R and wow. it is amazing how fast that thing was.
sam
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I'd argue that it does require quite a bit more of a skilled operator though. Any mouthbreather can tape film to a screen
and press a couple buttons on an exposure unit. But add a full on computer to that mix and things starts exploding.
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I'd argue that it does require quite a bit more of a skilled operator though. Any mouthbreather can tape film to a screen
and press a couple buttons on an exposure unit. But add a full on computer to that mix and things starts exploding.
That was my initial concern, when we installed it. Girl that worked screen room before and after install of CTS as well, never had any computer experience. She still has no FB or e-mail. It took me only 15 minutes to teach her work with RIP. Including changing positions. And she speaks no english as well.
Boris
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Eb, I can show anyone how to run out CTS in 15 minutes or less. Literally a matter of 6-8 key strokes. I am not proud of the fact that I am about the most computer illiterate person alive, but our CTS is a piece of cake. I will admit it took our artists a little time to get used to, but if I asked them to print out film (if we had the ability) they'd have similar problems "learning" how to do that again. Actually only one of our five artists has ever printed to film.
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Our Print Production Software (PPS) really can keep things simple in the screen room. The operator needs to know how to open a file (just like any Windows machine) and click print. All the options for art work can/will be decided by the artist. This way the operator needs very little computer knowledge to run the unit.
There are many ways to set up our i-Image ST/STE, the workflow scenarios are almost endless. If anyone has questions on how it would apply to their shop specifically please feel free to PM/Email/Call me.
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For those of us that weren't at sgia. Here's the factory video, absolutely awesome.
[url]http://m.youtube.com/mrprinting?uid=AqfKMlk5dKajXz2c6zN3Uw&desktop_uri=%2Fmrprinting[/url] ([url]http://m.youtube.com/mrprinting?uid=AqfKMlk5dKajXz2c6zN3Uw&desktop_uri=%2Fmrprinting[/url])
I will be taking a good look at this for a capital expenditure at the end of the year. Watch the video and look at the reflection when the light bar turns on, it appears there are voids in the light where there is a space between the bulbs. It seems you would not get an even exposure, I assume the rows of lights are off set, would this make for a even blanket of light over a given area?
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For those of us that weren't at sgia. Here's the factory video, absolutely awesome.
[url]http://m.youtube.com/mrprinting?uid=AqfKMlk5dKajXz2c6zN3Uw&desktop_uri=%2Fmrprinting[/url] ([url]http://m.youtube.com/mrprinting?uid=AqfKMlk5dKajXz2c6zN3Uw&desktop_uri=%2Fmrprinting[/url])
I will be taking a good look at this for a capital expenditure at the end of the year. Watch the video and look at the reflection when the light bar turns on, it appears there are voids in the light where there is a space between the bulbs. It seems you would not get an even exposure, I assume the rows of lights are off set, would this make for a even blanket of light over a given area?
they are offset and too numerous for voids..
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I see it this way. Anybody that has anything to do with the pre-press set up, such as separations, film out put, or CTS, aligning films, for precise registration and efficient press line ups, should, NEVER be just some joe off the street that you pay minimum wage to. This person should be highly skilled, as their proficiency has everything to do with proper press set up. At that, your business investing in the most efficient methods allows your press opps, shirt catches, "aka mouth breathers, or average joe" to be busy busy busy. If CTS and faster exposures are leaving people standing around, well, business 101, the standers are either wasted salaries, or your sales folks need to step it up. Paying un-necessary salaries is going to hurt a business whether they have the highest of tech or not, it's just more money out the door than the cost of the gear. Yeah it sucks to cancel out a job for someone, but if they are costing more than the gear, and you are getting less output just to be the cool guy giving the job, you are actually choking the growth of your business. Sam has told us this before, because I had the same mentality, if you think you can't afford someone's salary, but need them in the shop, you just need to step up your sales. We've put it to the test over the past 3-4 months because we reached the point where we needed more hands on deck, and it's true. Get the sales folks moving and you will end up offering more jobs, and you'll find yourself pushing your newly bought techy gear to it's potential. I'm all about wanting to have a shop that employs good folks with a good paycheck, but the business can't make it if they are handed cave man tools and methods for today's market. Trust me, as a small shop owner, CTS will make your business flow. I'm now thinking about the addition of maybe a D-Scan and the auto washout booth to have a self contained imaging room and really ramp up pre-press. Again though, if any shop just lets joe blow, tape film to screens and half ass expose, all you are doing is costing yourself time, which is money and growth. Knowing that going from carrier sheets, to CTS sped us up and increased accuracy on press with pristine registration by 75% proves to me that the old way of doing things just holds back any shop, at any size. I'm just speaking from my experiences going from, vellum and film with the old school tape it to the screen method, to Tri-lock carrier sheets, to now CTS. CTS will blow it all away all the time, and the investment is more than worth it for any shop that wants grow.
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I suppose my comment was more towards the computer literate versus illiterate.
My pops for example, one of the smartest folks I know, can build giant buildings in his sleep,
but when it comes to a computer it's like stepping back in time. Some folks are just that way.
Screen dude here outputs great screens daily, he wouldn't be here if he didn't. We've set him up
with the right tools for the job (how many of ya'll have a post exposure dip tank?) but it is
comparatively easy to line up reg marks on an FPU, match a color coded screen to an exposure
unit number, and press a button. Lather, rinse, repeat. That comparison is against using a computer,
for the computer illiterate.
I am happy to hear that M&R has a software that manages this stuff for you, and that even the cavemen
can use it. I was under the impression it was more like a RIP in that you still have to print from your
art program, which would be a no go for most everyone in the shop save myself and the art dude.
Lastly, I understand wanting the best throughput for your screen department, and I suppose it makes sense
for future expansion, but what is the point in being able to output screens so quickly when you're running
an 8 color press that maxes out at 480 pieces an hour? Unless you are constantly printing 8 color jobs, or a hell
of a lot of 4 color 12 piece jobs, I'd think any conventional screen room would be more than able to keep up with
one press.
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I'm sad I missed seeing all that in ORL but the video is awesome. I won't go into how it wouldn't have sensible ROI for us compared to upgrading and adding autos but every shop is different. Our setup more than adequately keeps a day or two ahead of 4 auto production with minimal labor and we don't use carrier sheets or roller frames.
And so many jobs are libraried. That said if I was doing a start up with gobs of capital than I would absolutely go there. Truly groundbreaking stuff.
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wow..it exposes it too??....that's bad a$$!
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Apparently. Next is the automated washout booth. I was skeptical about trusting a machine to washout but apparently that is nailed down as well. It isn't too way out there to predict an automated "line" where a screen is loaded, imaged, exposed, washed out, and dried; all without touching human hands.
On the backside there have been machines like the mighty Zentner which can do the same on the dirty end of the screen making process.
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Apparently. Next is the automated washout booth. I was skeptical about trusting a machine to washout but apparently that is nailed down as well. It isn't too way out there to predict an automated "line" where a screen is loaded, imaged, exposed, washed out, and dried; all without touching human hands.
On the backside there have been machines like the mighty Zentner which can do the same on the dirty end of the screen making process.
I here that is next!
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We're not maxed out yet with our equipment and payroll and I'm not ignoring all the good that CTS will do for us but I'm waiting till we're doing enough work to get the ROI I want. We still gang most every screen with multiple images and are using 15-25 screens per day right now, it's slowed a little since the summer, but once we reach the 30-35 range per day the ROI numbers start to look way better than right now. And now with the LED built into the CTS, do we wait a little longer and get the combo unit or stick with the CTS plus traditional exposure? Part of me wants to get a stand alone MH bulb that way I can shoot 4 at a time hanging on a wall but then I see the speed of that STE-3 w/ LED and I think that would be way faster than shooting 4 up with an MH bulb.
But now we need to do some LED testing on dual cures that are going to do 5000 piece DC runs and see how they hold up.
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We're not maxed out yet with our equipment and payroll and I'm not ignoring all the good that CTS will do for us but I'm waiting till we're doing enough work to get the ROI I want. We still gang most every screen with multiple images and are using 15-25 screens per day right now, it's slowed a little since the summer, but once we reach the 30-35 range per day the ROI numbers start to look way better than right now. And now with the LED built into the CTS, do we wait a little longer and get the combo unit or stick with the CTS plus traditional exposure? Part of me wants to get a stand alone MH bulb that way I can shoot 4 at a time hanging on a wall but then I see the speed of that STE-3 w/ LED and I think that would be way faster than shooting 4 up with an MH bulb.
But now we need to do some LED testing on dual cures that are going to do 5000 piece DC runs and see how they hold up.
We have done the testing and they hold up exactly the same as if cured with mercury vapor. Just a FYI.
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We're not maxed out yet with our equipment and payroll and I'm not ignoring all the good that CTS will do for us but I'm waiting till we're doing enough work to get the ROI I want. We still gang most every screen with multiple images and are using 15-25 screens per day right now, it's slowed a little since the summer, but once we reach the 30-35 range per day the ROI numbers start to look way better than right now. And now with the LED built into the CTS, do we wait a little longer and get the combo unit or stick with the CTS plus traditional exposure? Part of me wants to get a stand alone MH bulb that way I can shoot 4 at a time hanging on a wall but then I see the speed of that STE-3 w/ LED and I think that would be way faster than shooting 4 up with an MH bulb.
But now we need to do some LED testing on dual cures that are going to do 5000 piece DC runs and see how they hold up.
Also you can gang up images on the same screen and they both will Tri-Loc.
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Apparently. Next is the automated washout booth. I was skeptical about trusting a machine to washout but apparently that is nailed down as well. It isn't too way out there to predict an automated "line" where a screen is loaded, imaged, exposed, washed out, and dried; all without touching human hands.
On the backside there have been machines like the mighty Zentner which can do the same on the dirty end of the screen making process.
Isn't that essentially what that German machine does?
Takes the coated screen (only extra step), then exposes the image on the screen via DLP and then washes out the stencil and dries it like a car wash.
Pretty awesome! But not cheap!
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Rich,
do the pins on static and roller frames for MHM present any issues with this unit ? Is ganging 2 images per screen easily accomplished ?
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Rich,
do the pins on static and roller frames for MHM present any issues with this unit ? Is ganging 2 images per screen easily accomplished ?
for those applications we make special holders. It is not an issue.
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We're not maxed out yet with our equipment and payroll and I'm not ignoring all the good that CTS will do for us but I'm waiting till we're doing enough work to get the ROI I want. We still gang most every screen with multiple images and are using 15-25 screens per day right now, it's slowed a little since the summer, but once we reach the 30-35 range per day the ROI numbers start to look way better than right now. And now with the LED built into the CTS, do we wait a little longer and get the combo unit or stick with the CTS plus traditional exposure? Part of me wants to get a stand alone MH bulb that way I can shoot 4 at a time hanging on a wall but then I see the speed of that STE-3 w/ LED and I think that would be way faster than shooting 4 up with an MH bulb.
But now we need to do some LED testing on dual cures that are going to do 5000 piece DC runs and see how they hold up.
We have done the testing and they hold up exactly the same as if cured with mercury vapor. Just a FYI.
Rich, what emulsion was used in this 5k run of dc and what were the exposure times? Mind PMing me the name / contact info of the printer so I can chat with him/her? This is the $ question that seems to create the sound of a pin drop up to this point with regard to LED units, so I'd be very interested to know the info above if available. Thanks!