TSB
screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Rocfrog on October 24, 2013, 08:33:24 PM
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OK so the owner is ready to make the commitment on a new press and asked me to come on here and get some opinions.....
We are looking for a 10/12 auto and he was wondering about the Sportsman EX....what does everyone think of it....is it as good as the Gauntlet III.....how reliable is it......???
and any other real shop experience you can offer....
Nick
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OK so the owner is ready to make the commitment on a new press and asked me to come on here and get some opinions.....
We are looking for a 10/12 auto and he was wondering about the Sportsman EX....what does everyone think of it....is it as good as the Gauntlet III.....how reliable is it......???
and any other real shop experience you can offer....
Nick
Love our Sportsman EX! Not a negative thing to say about it.
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I was gonna send you a message on FB and ask which model you had....So that's good to know that's what your running.
If you had to nit-pic anything you don't like about it or issues you've had....???
Nick
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Nick if you guys want your more then welcome to come check out our new 12 col challenger 3... I can show you somethings that have been really great for us regarding the new press.
Danny
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Danny, I might have to take you up on that...I'll talk to the owner in the morning.
Nick
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I was gonna send you a message on FB and ask which model you had....So that's good to know that's what your running.
If you had to nit-pic anything you don't like about it or issues you've had....???
Nick
Ours is the larger EX the 20x20 BTW.
I mean the same old story remains, if I had to do it all again I would have bought a bigger one (more colors), but that's not a issue with the press just me trying to save a buck because I thought we wouldn't need to be able to print more than 5 colors. Turns out we sell 5-6-7 weekly and turn away 7-8-9 too often. I will never again buy a press under 12 colors and honestly if I had a 16/18 I know my art guy and customers would fill it up with screens. Issues, I think we had one air lock go bad so far, replaced myself, took 2 minutes. Wasn't even down, changed it in between jobs. We have had it since 2011.
My only other advice is look at a Challenger III as well or even the EXG I think they still offer. Talk to Rich, he will help you figure out which press fits you the best. You will be so happy with M&R.
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Some thoughts........with a DC/UB you can often forego the cool down allowing to print 8 clrs overprint on a 10 color machine. At a shop that will remain nameless the rule was "If you can't do it with 8 the seps are bad" and it the graphic would be re-engineered; often going to a different sep guy.
That said this isn't always possible hence the 14 color which will allow you to print 9 colors over a base with 2 flashes and cools. For me, any press over this size is just technical masturbation.
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No disrespect to the EX, but if a Gauntlet III exists, the EX won't be better than a GIII, I'll bet everything I have on it. Maybe the new press from M&R will be called the Gauntlet III.
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Our 8 color EX is a dream come true and the best thing that has happened to me besides my wife!
That's a true screen printer talking, eh?
It is the most sturdy and consistent press in it's class. Not to mention the
absolute, utmost in customer service of any company anywhere.
Only issue is an air leak on head one that comes and goes, fixing itself.
Not much of a downside with such a complex machine.
CHIII would be nice and -Tri-Loc.
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Thanks fro all the great reply's! I talked to the owner this morning about this and I guess I misunderstood him....looks like he is looking at the Sportsman EX, the Gauntlet II, and the sRoque (kind of). He is definitely wanting a 10/12 and said the Challenger III is out of his range. I also mentioned to look at the MHM presses based on some of the searching I did on here last night.
I guess he found a used Gauntlet II which kind of started all this research.
Nick
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Thanks fro all the great reply's! I talked to the owner this morning about this and I guess I misunderstood him....looks like he is looking at the Sportsman EX, the Gauntlet II, and the sRoque (kind of). He is definitely wanting a 10/12 and said the Challenger III is out of his range. I also mentioned to look at the MHM presses based on some of the searching I did on here last night.
I guess he found a used Gauntlet II which kind of started all this research.
Nick
I have a G2...awesome machine...since he's looking at used, the only option -in my opinion- would be these guys:
http://screenprintsource.com/equipment-categories/textile-presses/ (http://screenprintsource.com/equipment-categories/textile-presses/)
this is where my machine came from and just like M&R, the customer service is top notch.
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We've also been considering the SP EX, but recently became aware of a difference in indexers. The EX is a servo, "motor", but unlike the EXG, which is basically the Gauntlet2, it does not use a ball screw on the indexer. Not that the mechanism used in the EX isn't good, it's not as fast as a ball screw. Especially when looking at a bigger model, say 12 colors, I think the ball screw indexer is more where you want to be, vs the EX mechanism, there isn't any lit on it, but speaking with techs over the past couple years, it's the way the two mechanism works that has to do with the indexing speed. Of course, the direct drive belt like the C3 is the fastest way, plus no up down of the tables, which is why it's going to be cool to see what the new hybrid press turns out like from M&R. Either way, you need to see what it is that you need. I doubt there are any shops out there, with a loader and a puller, that, "want" to have consistency and high quality, running their autos over 70 doz an hour, too much can go wrong trying to race along like that.
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Thanks fro all the great reply's! I talked to the owner this morning about this and I guess I misunderstood him....looks like he is looking at the Sportsman EX, the Gauntlet II, and the sRoque (kind of). He is definitely wanting a 10/12 and said the Challenger III is out of his range. I also mentioned to look at the MHM presses based on some of the searching I did on here last night.
I guess he found a used Gauntlet II which kind of started all this research.
Nick
If your boss is interested or would like to, I would be more than happy to talk with him about my experiences with our S.Roque. You can PM me for my number if you want. I also believe there is a converted M&R shop out your way that now runs S.Roques. Don't know much about it and I am admittedly a geographical moron, but I do know it is in CO! ;)
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If your boss is interested or would like to, I would be more than happy to talk with him about my experiences with our S.Roque. You can PM me for my number if you want. I also believe there is a converted M&R shop out your way that now runs S.Roques. Don't know much about it and I am admittedly a geographical moron, but I do know it is in CO! ;)
I can ask him and let you know. There is a shop in town that now in on their second sRoques and I know he is going to try and call them and see if they will let us go look at it, not sure if its the same one your talking about or not, company is called Tayco.
Nick
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dang i get so envious of you guys when ya'll start talking about the automatic presses you are going to buy.
one day...one day..
I feel like Trelane in Star Trek..."But I was winning...I was winning...I was winning!!..I would have won...I would have....I would have"...:::slowly disappearing:::
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Ok so they decided to just go brand new and got the Sportsman EX from M&R! And we are going to do a whole shop re-lay-out!
But with that he is looking at the Tri-Loc system so I now have to research that, but his biggest hold up is the carrier sheets because they seem like they are super expensive or a big hassle to keep reusing them.....
Nick
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Congrats! When I was talking to your boss I told him to get a reg system no matter what press he got! Maybe he should of looked at a CTS instead of a press :P Either way you are moooovin on up!
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Tri lock is a must!!
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Tell your boss to come take a look at our CTS..... I will make him a killer deal on it as we are going to be upgrading to an m&r I image STE here soon.....
If you guys have 2 auto's it would be a key ingredient for workflow.
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Talk to Alan about his fpu for the trilock.
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LOL!! I guess I should have checked for replys.......Danny and Brandt I just sent you guys messages about the tri-loc.....LOL!!
Not sure he wants to leap into the CTS but I'll mention it tomorrow. ;)
Talk to Alan about his fpu for the trilock.
I was gonna send Alan a message because in my quick digging looks like he has a trick but it is hush hush due to some conflicting issues.....
Nick
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you cant get an M&R and not get the Tri-loc. Seriously, you have to. Thank me later.
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LOL!! I guess I should have checked for replys.......Danny and Brandt I just sent you guys messages about the tri-loc.....LOL!!
Not sure he wants to leap into the CTS but I'll mention it tomorrow. ;)
Talk to Alan about his fpu for the trilock.
I was gonna send Alan a message because in my quick digging looks like he has a trick but it is hush hush due to some conflicting issues.....
Nick
No reason for hush on my end. I know the modifications that I and others before me have done to the triloc may be frowned upon by the folks that made the triloc but I truly believe that some things, no matter how great they are, can be made a little better. The mods have made a huge difference in a few key areas. Most notably, speed and believe it or not, accuracy. It wasn't easy cutting a piece off the master frame holder and drilling holes into the triloc unit but now that I've used it like this for almost 2 years (almost 3 years if you count my DIY version we used). I wouldn't do it any other way other than cts.
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Seems like a great post you could do a "how to" for.
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Here is what I use. The first pic is my layout table with a jig attached that is adjustable for several widths of frames. I tape my first film of my job "the one with the most print" to the layout table on 4 corners. The rest of the films for that job, I tape on the top and bottom centers so that tape doesn't interfere with the tape on the first film. I line the the other films to the original and lightly tack the scotch tape to the layout table. After, I'm sure that the reg marks are lined up perfectly, I place 4 pieces of double-sided tape around the image. I then butt my screen frame to the stops and lower it to the film and rub the inside of the screen to make sure the double-sided tape makes contact. Then I expose. I do this for every screen in the job. Then for the original film I taped on 4 corners, I place a piece of scotch tape on the top and bottom centers and lift the 4 corners of the original and fold the tape under. I place double-sided tape on the original film to attach it to the back of the screen also.
After I'm done exposing, developing, taping and blocking off the reg marks. I place the pallet with an Identical jig on the press and rotate it to each screen for the job and butt them to the same stops. I'm ready to print.
9 out of 10 jobs are in perfect registration. If they are off at all, usually it just takes a bump of the micros to fix it.
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Where/how did you get the aluminum jigs?
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I'm pretty into the pre-reg talk. I am trying to fine tune what I am currently used.
Let's put this in a new thread!
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No reason for hush on my end. I know the modifications that I and others before me have done to the triloc may be frowned upon by the folks that made the triloc but I truly believe that some things, no matter how great they are, can be made a little better. The mods have made a huge difference in a few key areas. Most notably, speed and believe it or not, accuracy. It wasn't easy cutting a piece off the master frame holder and drilling holes into the triloc unit but now that I've used it like this for almost 2 years (almost 3 years if you count my DIY version we used). I wouldn't do it any other way other than cts.
After talking to Brandt and Danny last night and doing some research and then talking to my boss this morning we are definitely getting one and he really likes the idea of CTS and is going to investigate it further. I'm not sure he'd be up to cutting up a brand new (since we cant find a used one) Tri-Loc but maybe Brandt is write do a "how-to" thread and I can show him and once we get it we can entertain the idea.
Nick
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No reason for hush on my end. I know the modifications that I and others before me have done to the triloc may be frowned upon by the folks that made the triloc but I truly believe that some things, no matter how great they are, can be made a little better. The mods have made a huge difference in a few key areas. Most notably, speed and believe it or not, accuracy. It wasn't easy cutting a piece off the master frame holder and drilling holes into the triloc unit but now that I've used it like this for almost 2 years (almost 3 years if you count my DIY version we used). I wouldn't do it any other way other than cts.
After talking to Brandt and Danny last night and doing some research and then talking to my boss this morning we are definitely getting one and he really likes the idea of CTS and is going to investigate it further. I'm not sure he'd be up to cutting up a brand new (since we cant find a used one) Tri-Loc but maybe Brandt is write do a "how-to" thread and I can show him and once we get it we can entertain the idea.
Nick
Alan or someone would have to do that, we've not modified ours.
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Alan or someone would have to do that, we've not modified ours.
Whoops....wrong "write"...I meant "right" as in correct.....my bad....
Nick
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Where/how did you get the aluminum jigs?
I had them made at a shop that had waterjet tables.
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We have used the Tri Loc for five years and have never used a carrier sheet or anything on our exposure unit. Call me when you have time and I will be glad to help.
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Thought I should update this....
We got the 10clr Sportsman all set up and the tech left around lunch time today so now it's time to figure it all out! We also ended up getting the Lawson CTS from Danny and have been figuring that thing out for the past two days.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/Rocfrog/Screen%20Print/3C54B472-008C-4911-A74E-5B09B42921BD_zpsedquclpf.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/Rocfrog/Screen%20Print/4D3B0A6B-B263-4F02-9160-1ECDB3B4A116_zpsklhnhofl.jpg)
Nick