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screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: TCT on June 14, 2013, 12:07:09 PM
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Even though we have a boatload of statics and they work nicely for the majority of our work, I have come upon a "deal" on some used Neuman M3's. They are 25x33's which I know is a bit of a oddball size, I would like 26x36's but doesn't seem to be in the cards this time.
I was hoping to get some input from you guys on if I should get these oddball sizes, and what may be a good price ea. on them?
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Newman's, used or new, are the bee's knees. Doesn't matter how you get them, just do.
(Excepting the Speedball kit I got for my 13th birthday, and some wood frames my pops
and I stretched with that windows spline stuff, I've never used a static)
Frame size is a whole 'nother ball of wax though. 25x33 is for max print size on the Gauntlet 2's I think.
I used to have 3 different size Newman's running in my shop. NEVER AGAIN. Pick a size
(usually your max) and stick with it. Multiple sizes is hell on frame racks and moving holders on press etc.
Now to hijack your thread. Does anyone like the Newman mesh protectors? I just picked up 150
Newman's and a box of the mesh protectors came with. I'm not particularly fond of them and may
give them away for the price of shipping, unless someone convinces me on their greatness.
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You think that's an odd size, try 25x30. Happens to be the max on a GT-6, go figure. Just put in a request to buy more from stretch.
We use the Pin Lock so, as long as everything is the same width, we're cool but like eb I prefer one frame type/size. We have enough variables to deal with.
Watch out buying used for the channe-l it needs to be perfect. Dirty is ok but dinged is not. Regarding the rest of these tank like frames, you can clean and refurb M3s (excepting the plastic cornered ones, avoid those, they crack and swell) until the apocalypse but if the channel is wrecked up they are scrap metal.
I've found that unless the used frames are legitimately "like new" it's not worth the hours of cleaning for the $ "saved ".
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What do you think I should be spending on these bad boys?
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This is my battle, most of our work is 23x31's, however some jobs 25x36's. I struggle with just maybe doing 25x36's only when I go all in on Newmans.
But I wont do used. I dont want someone else's problems, no matter the discount.
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I dont want someone else's problems, no matter the discount.
That is exactly what I told my father-in-law before I married his daughter.... ;D
Seriously now, I do really want the 25x36's but if I can get a REAL good deal on these I may be cool with using them in the meantime.
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FWIW, I've never paid more than twenty bucks for M3's when they're used, but I'm never in a hurry.
If you're handy with stuff used in decent shape will be fine IMHO, but make sure they have good lock strips and as mentioned--no dings in the rollers or channels. If the bolts squeak, (and are silver,) you probably have to clean them and anti-seize them again.
As far as size goes, I've got 23x31, 23x33, 33x33, and 24x33. It's a pain. Don't be like me. ;D
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I got 24 used ones last year for my manual.
I guess I got lucky. Paid around $21 each and they were almost as new. No issues. It took me around 2-3 hours to clean them.
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Sometimes new doesn't work out either though. IE Pocono. In fact many times "used" means you know
it works.
If you ding a channel, flip the whole frame around and stretch from the other side. Only one side has enough
tension on it to pop a screen from a burr.
There's a reputable broker near me that has 30 - 23x31's for $25 each.
I'm lucky in that the dude that sold me my presses has (or had, now) 300+ 25x36 with the MHM pins
already on. I swear he used them once then stored them.
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Brandt just cause you buy new don't mean you won't have problems, buying anything unseen is a problem new or used, I bought new stuff and then open the box and bang it's already broken right in the box. I got 4 reten frames and they as tight today as the day I got them, only knock on those are they can get odd size when you set them up with mesh unless your careful.
Darryl
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We're in the market for M3 23x31's right now. I want to buy very good condition used and am willing to pay for that condition but it just doesn't seem to exist.
Might just have to do 12 new ones.
Last set of used ones close to half had messed up channels we had to sand and a few bent bars even...got 2 free frames to replace most of the crap but still it wasn't really worth it imo.
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This is my battle, most of our work is 23x31's, however some jobs 25x36's. I struggle with just maybe doing 25x36's only when I go all in on Newmans.
But I wont do used. I dont want someone else's problems, no matter the discount.
We need the 25x36 for anything over 17", have 25 of them, rest are 23x31. I see no issue with having a few diffrent sized frames personally. IMO it makes no sense to have just big ones especially when you have a 3"x3" left chest to burn on each end there a lot of unused real estate there.
I understand the cleaning argument but at a third of the cost for used to me it makes no sense to buy new. Maybe I'm just cheap. Like eb said just flip the rollers an they are fine or just pry the channel back out. Knicks and burrs can easliy be cleaned up with a file and emory cloth.
When ever I see a good deal on some frames I grab them. Never got burned but all need some tlc.
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What do you do about drying racks when you have multiple frame sizes?
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3 racks for 23x31, one for the 25x36 (huge rack holds 40 screens) which also holds what's left of our 20x24 and a half assed rack on top of the 23x31 racks to hold 4 36x36. As soon as the 23x31 are coated and dry they get leaned up against the wall close to the exposure unit to clear up the racks.
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I am a big fan of standardization. That means frames, too. I have 600+ 23x31 M3 frames. The one and only size and profile. Also makes my pre registration work better. No questions ever asked.
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I understand the cleaning argument but at a third of the cost for used to me it makes no sense to buy new. Maybe I'm just cheap. Like eb said just flip the rollers an they are fine or just pry the channel back out. Knicks and burrs can easliy be cleaned up with a file and emory cloth.
This. Plus I'm pretty sure the older frames are a lot more robust than the newer lighter M3's but I could be wrong there. For me, I don't see a scenario where I'd buy new frames lol even if I won the lottery. Maybe I'm cheap, too!
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Sometimes new doesn't work out either though. IE Pocono. In fact many times "used" means you know
it works.
If you ding a channel, flip the whole frame around and stretch from the other side. Only one side has enough
tension on it to pop a screen from a burr.
There's a reputable broker near me that has 30 - 23x31's for $25 each.
I'm lucky in that the dude that sold me my presses has (or had, now) 300+ 25x36 with the MHM pins
already on. I swear he used them once then stored them.
SPSI Has like 100 used - 23x33M's with the MHM pins already in them, $45 or something like that.
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Hey I'm right there with all you cheap asses but, when running high tension or thin thread mesh, it can be a real odyssey getting channels on used frames up to par. That's all I'm saying. I'm sure you still save some bread on the used frames, even after all the cleaning and sanding but it's probably not as much as you think.
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The frames I use are in the $80-90 range new. Add the MHM pins and we're over $100 each each easy.
Not to mention my own little odyssey with Mr. Newman.
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Brandt just cause you buy new don't mean you won't have problems, buying anything unseen is a problem new or used, I bought new stuff and then open the box and bang it's already broken right in the box. I got 4 reten frames and they as tight today as the day I got them, only knock on those are they can get odd size when you set them up with mesh unless your careful.
Darryl
Well the chance that something you buy used is not OK is much higher then for a new unused product. I think it has something to do with it being used ;)
I personally would not buy used ones either as I`m just not the second hand kind of person. And I totally agree with Brandt, 4-6 weeks delivery time for Roller Frames is almost ridicules. But then we had the positive experience of getting every order for Roller Frames shipped earlier. You just have to push push push.
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But I wont do used. I dont want someone else's problems, no matter the discount.
I feel that way about many things, but with Newmans you can use ones that have been stripped of powder coating, dented, scratched, etc. Some of my favorite screens looked like they had been used for scaffolding. I was maybe 2nd or 3rd owner. They held tension perfectly. Those things are built like hammers.
One note: avoid ones that have been permanently taped with that Polyken white tape, unless you want to invest a little time cleaning them up.
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I prefer standard sized frames, just incase I get a roller master one day.
Talking about delivery time...... The ship finally arrived at the port. I ordered them since January..... Not complaining because my supplier gave me free shipping from USA to Indonesia.
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@abchung ahem2, some free shipping to Singapore please? Hahahaha
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But I wont do used. I dont want someone else's problems, no matter the discount.
I feel that way about many things, but with Newmans you can use ones that have been stripped of powder coating, dented, scratched, etc. Some of my favorite screens looked like they had been used for scaffolding. I was maybe 2nd or 3rd owner. They held tension perfectly. Those things are built like hammers.
One note: avoid ones that have been permanently taped with that Polyken white tape, unless you want to invest a little time cleaning them up.
I'd agree on the old ones--have some newer MZX-UL's that don't seem to hold up quite as well as the M3's and older MZX's, but are still OK for sure. I'm pretty sure I'll get more than my ten bucks each out of them.
Ink and tape residue come off pretty easy with steel wool or a scotchbrite pad and some press wash.
Good for cleaning the channels out too.
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I got 24 used ones last year for my manual.
I guess I got lucky. Paid around $21 each and they were almost as new. No issues. It took me around 2-3 hours to clean them.
Crap. No wonder I got mine for $13 each. Came with a lot of elbow grease and chemicals, lol. And I stopped cleaning at 12. Someday I'll get around to the last 8.
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After buying somw new MZXs and a bunch of used older ones, I think the best they ever made were the blue anodized ones. They don't have the knicks in the powdercoating that the blue powdercoated ones sometimes did, and are more robust than the new ultralights.
Worst retensionables I have are a handful of the Chinese Sefar knockoffs. Heavy as hell, with bolts that are barely high enough to grab with a socket, and an occasional stripped tube end.
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Glad to know that Tom. The ones I have are the blue anodized ones.
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I have a bunch of the blue "anodized" (Don Newman spoke with me once and mentioned they actually aren't anodized but some crazy type of industrial paint or something) and they are very solid, will likely outlast my career doing this. Only flaw on those is the little metal edges/lips at the end of the channel where the lock strips exit are soft and break off if previous owners banged them around.
I just was quoted 115.95 per for an unassembled 25x31 M3 with pin locks direct from stretch....geez, guess I need to get back on the cheap wagon and look for used. We use 25" wide but can't go longer than 31" long due to the GT-6's size limitations. I'll have to hunt down both roller sizes and make some franken frames.
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Sometimes new doesn't work out either though. IE Pocono. In fact many times "used" means you know
it works.
Ya sure there is a exception to every rule. Tons of Pocono screens here and they didn't stand behind the one order, sure its possible. SAME is possible from buying a bunch of used screens sight unseen from a broker or a shady shop going out of business. Ill take my risk on new. Not even a little interested in used screens.
Brandt just cause you buy new don't mean you won't have problems, buying anything unseen is a problem new or used, I bought new stuff and then open the box and bang it's already broken right in the box. I got 4 reten frames and they as tight today as the day I got them, only knock on those are they can get odd size when you set them up with mesh unless your careful.
Darryl
Where did I say or why would you assume that I would think new stuff can't have problems. I certainly never said such. Don't assume. I said I wont do used. Don't read into it.
Well the chance that something you buy used is not OK is much higher then for a new unused product. I think it has something to do with it being used ;)
I personally would not buy used ones either as I`m just not the second hand kind of person. And I totally agree with Brandt, 4-6 weeks delivery time for Roller Frames is almost ridicules. But then we had the positive experience of getting every order for Roller Frames shipped earlier. You just have to push push push.
Exactly my opinion.
Ill put a order in at some point and hope for faster.
But I wont do used. I dont want someone else's problems, no matter the discount.
I feel that way about many things, but with Newmans you can use ones that have been stripped of powder coating, dented, scratched, etc. Some of my favorite screens looked like they had been used for scaffolding. I was maybe 2nd or 3rd owner. They held tension perfectly. Those things are built like hammers.
One note: avoid ones that have been permanently taped with that Polyken white tape, unless you want to invest a little time cleaning them up.
Thanks for the advice, but doesn't change my opinion. I would not do used ones, period.
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Hey Brandt on a lighter note what year model is that truck you just got?
Darryl
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Hey Brandt on a lighter note what year model is that truck you just got?
Darryl
2013, bought it brand new.
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Don't won't derail this thread, but I saw a truck like that on Stacy Davis"s show didn't have that front end yours got, but they put on a super charger....
D
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I personally don't think any of you guys should buy used roller frames. I'd hate to see y'all waste 10-15 minutes of time and save $50/frame. I've got over 200 used ones and I've dealt with the good and bad of used frames. I've also dealt with new frames and I'll just say it was nice, but not as nice as getting used ones in average shape for $15/per. Next time anyone sees used ones for sale just walk away, and send me an email about them :).
Now maybe I can buy all the used ones that come up instead of getting beat to the punch.
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Don't wan't derail this thread, but I saw a truck like that on Stacy Davis"s show didn't have that front end yours got, but they put on a super charger....
D
Different model probably. Sport gets a different bumper/hood/lights/etc.
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My thoughts exactly Alan. I just saved over $10k on 150 frames. But what do I know.....
Again, there's a reputable broker near me with 30 - 23x31's.
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My thoughts exactly Alan. I just saved over $10k on 150 frames. But what do I know.....
Again, there's a reputable broker near me with 30 - 23x31's.
Can you shoot me info on those 30?
I'm with you guys, don't own one single frame we bought new, but I think if you're in a big hurry or first time out, new is helpful.
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I pulled the trigger on the frames I originally started this thread about and they came in today.... Some of them look like they have been used once! I didn't really get the chance to check out the whole pallet today, but I will break into them tomorrow and post some pics of the worst ones. In this case I really think it was worth it to buy them used.
Anyone know what 25x33 M3's go for new?
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I understand the cleaning argument but at a third of the cost for used to me it makes no sense to buy new. Maybe I'm just cheap. Like eb said just flip the rollers an they are fine or just pry the channel back out. Knicks and burrs can easliy be cleaned up with a file and emory cloth.
When ever I see a good deal on some frames I grab them. Never got burned but all need some tlc.
Attached pic shows the best little tool we have every found for cleaning rollers and channels, made of a similar material to the scotch bite pads but seem to last for several dozen screens. Simply drop the screen in a dip tank to pre-soften some of the crud and then start using the 'brush' in your drill. Only a couple minutes per screen and 90% of the crud is gone, including polyken adhesive residue.
My production manager found these a year ago and we love 'em.
~Kitson
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I will agree I bought about 25 use rollers for like 7.50 ea dude needed to unload them as he was selling everything in his shop, I had to clean some, but a good deal no less. Yep I,m with Alan let me at some of that used stuff, for me the difference in new and used is you get to play with it first ::).
Darryl
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I understand the cleaning argument but at a third of the cost for used to me it makes no sense to buy new. Maybe I'm just cheap. Like eb said just flip the rollers an they are fine or just pry the channel back out. Knicks and burrs can easliy be cleaned up with a file and emory cloth.
When ever I see a good deal on some frames I grab them. Never got burned but all need some tlc.
Attached pic shows the best little tool we have every found for cleaning rollers and channels, made of a similar material to the scotch bite pads but seem to last for several dozen screens. Simply drop the screen in a dip tank to pre-soften some of the crud and then start using the 'brush' in your drill. Only a couple minutes per screen and 90% of the crud is gone, including polyken adhesive residue.
My production manager found these a year ago and we love 'em.
~Kitson
Those look PERFECT. Gotta wear those safety goggles though. 8)
Probably an auto body shop kind of thing?
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My shop doesn't have time for cleaning up used screens unfortunately, so id just have to do it on weekends or at night or something. I don't HAVE to work like that anymore so I am HAPPY to pay for new ones. Context is so important ya know.
I fully understand those of you that have time to do it and you need to save a buck though. Nothing wrong with that at all if that's what you want/need to do, but why some of you try to force that on others whom clearly say they wouldn't do it that way blows my mind. There is no term for that at all!
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Brandt, I really don't think anyone gives a Fuk what you do with your money, I sorry, I don't want to dig on you but man you can get under the skin quick. The statement I made a few post back was not a dig on you, as you took it to be, all I said was new stuff could have problems too and I even said I had bought new stuff that was broken, how you took that as trying to tell you what to do I don't know. You act like a spoiled child on here at times with your come back on folks when they post something you don't like, most times I will try and skip over your post or comments cuz you act like a fuking brat, stop being so defensive. I think you've have gotten your point across that you live the good life, and you should you work for it. I did not want to blast at you like this, but dam dude.....
Darryl
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Brandt, I really don't think anyone gives a Fuk what you do with your money, I sorry, I don't want to dig on you but man you can get under the skin quick. The statement I made a few post back was not a dig on you, as you took it to be, all I said was new stuff could have problems too and I even said I had bought new stuff that was broken, how you took that as trying to tell you what to do I don't know. You act like a spoiled child on here at times with your come back on folks when they post something you don't like, most times I will try and skip over your post or comments cuz you act like a fuking brat, stop being so defensive. I think you've have gotten your point across that you live the good life, and you should you work for it. I did not want to blast at you like this, but dam dude.....
Darryl
After a few posts directed at me yes I replied. Call me crazy but to me it was clear I wasn't interested in used screens. I didn't ask to be sold on it, told how new stuff breaks at times too (duh) and so on. I mean how much more clear could I be in my original post? I feel like some of you could use some reading and comprehension classes.
Please tell me how this could be taken any way but what I said? Original post below.
But I wont do used. I dont want someone else's problems, no matter the discount.
Seems pretty cut and dry to me. Why some of you direct posts at me trying to get me do it "your" way is interesting. There is a term for it.....
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Unless your shop is running full tilt every shift and no one ever has down time then it makes sense to go new on anything. In our case business is fickle one week can be over booked and be forced to work extra hours and weekends, the next week can be normal and always have a week in the mix that has down time. Its those times I put my guys to work on cleaning PM odd projects shelved for down time. I am sure many shops here never suffer from slow weeks but I would guess most of us have the typical up and down ride our industry goes through.
A couple weeks ago we added our third person to our printing crew, mostly because I have been suffering a severe back problem and am unable to chip in like I used to. The other reason is because we have been slammed, but now things are slowing down for this and next week and I have to figure out how to keep the extra guy busy. My thoughts has been getting back into doing retensionables again, I will buy used and put our guy to work on cleaning them and assembling its a win win situation.
I got away from rollers a few years ago because of the time needed to fuss with them in fact I think I sold a few to Evo maybe?
Anyways just goes to show everyone has a different way of approaching things, I prefer to generate work for our employees any way possible and a lot of times used stuff does the trick.
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there is a big difference between used and GOOD used. I've bought some used stuff that literally looked like it never saw action. Deals like that are rare. I agree though, spending time cleaning frames can be a waste...time better spent making sales calls, following up with customers or posting useless crap on the forum. ;)
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there is a big difference between used and GOOD used. I've bought some used stuff that literally looked like it never saw action. Deals like that are rare. I agree though, spending time cleaning frames can be a waste...time better spent making sales calls, following up with customers or posting useless crap on the forum. ;)
Thats assuming you would be the one having to clean them, maybe you have employees that need fill in time. Then you could have even more time to post on silly forums! ;D
What has happened here is Brandt mentioned he wont do used, that sparked a discussion about buying used newmans and peoples personally experience. It was never intended to persuade Brandt otherwise just a simple discussion, a valuable discussion as well for others in the future that want to know if buying used newmans is worth it. They can be pointed to this thread and read peoples experiences and also learn tricks to cleaning used rollers.
Brandt stop taking things so personally brother!
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there is a big difference between used and GOOD used
yep. I've seen some crazy frames from larger shops, just totally mangled and I've received a whole shipment of near perfect ones too.
You can get away with gnarly frames more easily when using standard thread mesh at "normal" tensions. Thin thread and high tension will quickly sour the deal if the used frames you got weren't in excellent condition.
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there is a big difference between used and GOOD used. I've bought some used stuff that literally looked like it never saw action. Deals like that are rare. I agree though, spending time cleaning frames can be a waste...time better spent making sales calls, following up with customers or posting useless crap on the forum. ;)
Thats assuming you would be the one having to clean them, maybe you have employees that need fill in time. Then you could have even more time to post on silly forums! ;D
What has happened here is Brandt mentioned he wont do used, that sparked a discussion about buying used newmans and peoples personally experience. It was never intended to persuade Brandt otherwise just a simple discussion, a valuable discussion as well for others in the future that want to know if buying used newmans is worth it. They can be pointed to this thread and read peoples experiences and also learn tricks to cleaning used rollers.
Brandt stop taking things so personally brother!
I would agree but I was "quoted" and my situation referenced thus making personally about our situation. They want to start drama. I happy to mix it up if they point fingers.
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We have a grinding op and stretch and glue op upstairs in the mezzo. Thousands of static alums. We control all the tension and adhesion aspects to meet our needs. Rollers are barely used. Have a few hundred rollers but they won't work on our presses.
No one misses them.
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Unless your shop is running full tilt every shift and no one ever has down time then it makes sense to go new on anything.
We generally have no extra time for it, so that was the context I made my post in. If we had extra time, id say used might be OK as I can just have my employees clean them and get them going. Right now we are finishing the weeks work around 5pm on Friday. So we are all enjoying our nights and weekends off. NO amount of savings would make me change my mind there with our current situation. If it changes maybe my opinion could change.
We like new stuff. Just how I roll. I have had my fair share of used things in my life. Which is why I lean at new stuff.
there is a big difference between used and GOOD used. I've bought some used stuff that literally looked like it never saw action. Deals like that are rare. I agree though, spending time cleaning frames can be a waste...time better spent making sales calls, following up with customers or posting useless crap on the forum. ;)
Ya, I mean who are you all gonna hate if I dont play the ass... ;)
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Damn, Darryl's on tilt lol don't see that often!
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As far as I know, TCT started this thread and wanted some input on used retentionables...I know I wasn't trying to persuade Brandt to do anything, that's pointless and a waste of time. My comments were for those who want to know my take on it and if you don't agree with me, fine. But just like there is nobody here that could convince me new roller frames are better than used, nobody is going to convince Brandt that he should buy used. I've got experience with used and new frames and I gave a little bit of that experience to those who want to use it, that's it.
We don't have time to mess with roller frames but we do, cause we sure as hell don't have time to be double stroking and running revolver mode on anything right now. I've got a crew that doesn't need me all the time so when I have 10 minutes I'll stretch a screen or clean a frame, I end up getting 3-5 screens into production per week despite doing twice the workload we did last June.
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As far as I know, TCT started this thread and wanted some input on used retentionables...I know I wasn't trying to persuade Brandt to do anything, that's pointless and a waste of time. My comments were for those who want to know my take on it and if you don't agree with me, fine. But just like there is nobody here that could convince me new roller frames are better than used, nobody is going to convince Brandt that he should buy used. I've got experience with used and new frames and I gave a little bit of that experience to those who want to use it, that's it.
We don't have time to mess with roller frames but we do, cause we sure as hell don't have time to be double stroking and running revolver mode on anything right now. I've got a crew that doesn't need me all the time so when I have 10 minutes I'll stretch a screen or clean a frame, I end up getting 3-5 screens into production per week despite doing twice the workload we did last June.
I was fine with people suggesting how they do it in a discussion format. Thats what forums are for, but not so much as they POINT (reply to me, reference my situation). It comes off as a know it all.
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As far as I know, TCT started this thread and wanted some input on used retentionables...I know I wasn't trying to persuade Brandt to do anything, that's pointless and a waste of time. My comments were for those who want to know my take on it and if you don't agree with me, fine. But just like there is nobody here that could convince me new roller frames are better than used, nobody is going to convince Brandt that he should buy used. I've got experience with used and new frames and I gave a little bit of that experience to those who want to use it, that's it.
We don't have time to mess with roller frames but we do, cause we sure as hell don't have time to be double stroking and running revolver mode on anything right now. I've got a crew that doesn't need me all the time so when I have 10 minutes I'll stretch a screen or clean a frame, I end up getting 3-5 screens into production per week despite doing twice the workload we did last June.
Actually I started the thread because I was in a bidding war against Brandt on these used ones, I knew how bad he wanted them and I just coulden't let it happen! ;D
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Actually I started the thread because I was in a bidding war against Brandt on these used ones, I knew how bad he wanted them and I just coulden't let it happen! ;D
;)
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Brandt, if your talking about my post yes it was directed at you, just telling you that new stuff has problems to, no where in there did I tell you to buy used you took that sh!t on your own and run with it like you do most things people say to you. I can't tell anybody here how to run there shop, I have a hard enough time with it myself, but if you feel like people are always tryin g to dig on you ask yourself why. For the most part people just make a comment and you go from 0 to 100 and smart posting smart ass remarks, then you try to explain why your right, come dude your better than that. You can take a joke or comment some one makes and turn it into all about me when really its not, when it just what it is a comment.
Darryl
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Brandt, if your talking about my post yes it was directed at you, just telling you that new stuff has problems to, no where in there did I tell you to buy used you took that sh!t on your own and run with it like you do most things people say to you. I can't tell anybody here how to run there shop, I have a hard enough time with it myself, but if you feel like people are always tryin g to dig on you ask yourself why. For the most part people just make a comment and you go from 0 to 100 and smart posting smart ass remarks, then you try to explain why your right, come dude your better than that. You can take a joke or comment some one makes and turn it into all about me when really its not, when it just what it is a comment.
Darryl
I don't need to ask myself why, I know why. People dig at me because they want the drama. No matter if they admit it or not. The same ones do it all the time, they know the result, they like it, they repeat it. I laugh and give them a show.
For the record, you have never seen me at 100 sir. Internet banter is nothing more than a form of entertainment for me.
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Thanks TCT now I actually remember who I sold those used rollers to ;D
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This is entertainment? I must get out a lot more than I thought... ;D
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Alright, now Ive had it up to here...
Dammit, Brandt, you listen and you listen good, cuz I aint repeating it again...you WILL get your ass out there and buy a bunch of used retensionables, you understand? And they damn well better be tensioned up to at least 50n, cuz no one can print less than that. Oh and dont let me catch you runnin Revolver mode either, thats an absolute no-no. And you better have that DTS, cuz no shop on the planet can operate without one, and I dont care how much scotch tape costs. Oh and while I'm at it, you damn well better not be separating under old color theory right? Dont you dare let me catch you outsourcing that stuff to some qualified professional..whattaya, stupid or something?!
Get on it, ya prick!
(did i leave anything out?)
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It's the my chit don't stink attitude you take with every subject. You've even
taken your attitude and ideas here and spread them into other threads where it was
neither asked for nor relevant. (IE Gerry's press tragedy) It's ridiculous and one
must wonder about your personal life if this is entertainment to you. No one liked
the snotty rich kid at school. No one. If you've got Darryl heated you're doing something
wrong.
Here's the used frames I was talking about. Dave's a nice guy:
http://www.digitsmith.com/newman-roller-frames-23-x-31-a-37754.html (http://www.digitsmith.com/newman-roller-frames-23-x-31-a-37754.html)
We've got so many frames now we have screens burned for next weeks work. That my friends is
a great feeling. I didn't realize how much of a bottleneck it was.
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Alright, now Ive had it up to here...
Dammit, Brandt, you listen and you listen good, cuz I aint repeating it again...you WILL get your ass out there and buy a bunch of used retensionables, you understand? And they damn well better be tensioned up to at least 50n, cuz no one can print less than that. Oh and dont let me catch you runnin Revolver mode either, thats an absolute no-no. And you better have that DTS, cuz no shop on the planet can operate without one, and I dont care how much scotch tape costs. Oh and while I'm at it, you damn well better not be separating under old color theory right? Dont you dare let me catch you outsourcing that stuff to some qualified professional..whattaya, stupid or something?!
Get on it, ya prick!
(did i leave anything out?)
You just summed up the last 6 months on this board.
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It's the my chit don't stink attitude you take with every subject. You've even
taken your attitude and ideas here and spread them into other threads where it was
neither asked for nor relevant. (IE Gerry's press tragedy) It's ridiculous and one
must wonder about your personal life if this is entertainment to you. No one liked
the snotty rich kid at school. No one. If you've got Darryl heated you're doing something
wrong.
If someone get's "heated" over a forum post like has been made in this thread well that's a real shame, well other than what I just posted to you.
We've got so many frames now we have screens burned for next weeks work. That my friends is
a great feeling. I didn't realize how much of a bottleneck it was.
Your post here sounds like a snotty rich kid. "oh man we have so many screens, we are so freaking awesome, we burnt them for the next month worth of work, we are so awesome, look how awesome we are".
;)
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Go somewhere else Brandt.
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Your post here sounds like a snotty rich kid. "oh man we have so many screens, we are so freaking awesome, we burnt them for the next month worth of work, we are so awesome, look how awesome we are".
Kinda sound like you Brandt, but hey go back to work as I'm going to do myself, got quotes to get out...I'm thru
Darryl
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Anyone know what 25x33 M3's go for new?
I was quoted $97.50/ea for 25x31 w. a small price break if you purchase 100 pcs.
I agree, your screen library is a major and often hidden bottleneck, you don't notice it until you get more individual order flowing through. If I could get us even four days out on screens I'd be very proud, well on ya man.
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Your post here sounds like a snotty rich kid. "oh man we have so many screens, we are so freaking awesome, we burnt them for the next month worth of work, we are so awesome, look how awesome we are".
Kinda sound like you Brandt, but hey go back to work as I'm going to do myself, got quotes to get out...I'm thru
Darryl
Double standard apparently. But then again I haven't been the only one to notice that either ;)
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I agree, your screen library is a major and often hidden bottleneck, you don't notice it until you get more individual order flowing through.
Exactly my point. I wish someone had told me a year ago. It's a "no duh" after the fact, but when you're in the middle
of it, it can be hard to see.
Just like carts. We already had a bunch, but it kind of seems like you can never have enough. The Uline one's are solid.
I would never buy a used cart. Not at all interested. Wouldn't want to inherit someone else's problems. In fact we're so busy here I pay
extra to have them assembled before shipping. (which actually brings up a funny point. I'm assuming Newman's don't ship assembled
from the factory, and if that's the case, I would argue that assembly can actually take longer than cleaning an already assembled frame.)
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Soooooo....when it comes to used frames versus new, ask yourself this one question...How much is 10 minutes of my time REALLY worth? If you think 10 minutes per frame is worth at least $50 then buy new. If anyone on this forum really does believe that 10 minutes of your time is worth $50 bucks then...well, that's awesome you think that and I won't be the one to burst your bubble and tell you it's not...ok maybe I just did. You're not running a fortune 100 company, you're in the screen printing business. There are a few people who get on this forum occassionally who's time is worth more than $50 per 10 minutes and if you have to ask yourself if you are one of those then you're not. Those guys don't do a whole lot of chiming in either but they do when it's necessary.
I do feel bad for Don sometimes because he made such a great product that they literally can last longer than the shop that owns them and most people don't have to buy new anymore. Probably why the cost is so high on new roller frames these days. We have several dozen of the first batch of newmans ever made, with some nice thin thread mesh in them knocking out one job after another. Some frames have been beat up and take 15 minutes instead of 5-10 to clean up but still, my time is worth more than anyone else's in this entire shop except one and it is still worth it to buy used frames and me be the one getting them into production.
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I agree, your screen library is a major and often hidden bottleneck, you don't notice it until you get more individual order flowing through.
Exactly my point. I wish someone had told me a year ago. It's a "no duh" after the fact, but when you're in the middle
of it, it can be hard to see.
Just like carts. We already had a bunch, but it kind of seems like you can never have enough. The Uline one's are solid.
I would never buy a used cart. Not at all interested. Wouldn't want to inherit someone else's problems. In fact we're so busy here I pay
extra to have them assembled before shipping. (which actually brings up a funny point. I'm assuming Newman's don't ship assembled
from the factory, and if that's the case, I would argue that assembly can actually take longer than cleaning an already assembled frame.)
Probably will, but id rather put together clean stuff than clean old stuff that could also have been abused. I hope that's OK with you cupcake.
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Don't you mean your girlfriend will put them together? Cupcake?
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Soooooo....when it comes to used frames versus new, ask yourself this one question...How much is 10 minutes of my time REALLY worth? If you think 10 minutes per frame is worth at least $50 then buy new. If anyone on this forum really does believe that 10 minutes of your time is worth $50 bucks then...well, that's awesome you think that and I won't be the one to burst your bubble and tell you it's not...ok maybe I just did. You're not running a fortune 100 company, you're in the screen printing business. There are a few people who get on this forum occassionally who's time is worth more than $50 per 10 minutes and if you have to ask yourself if you are one of those then you're not. Those guys don't do a whole lot of chiming in either but they do when it's necessary.
I do feel bad for Don sometimes because he made such a great product that they literally can last longer than the shop that owns them and most people don't have to buy new anymore. Probably why the cost is so high on new roller frames these days. We have several dozen of the first batch of newmans ever made, with some nice thin thread mesh in them knocking out one job after another. Some frames have been beat up and take 15 minutes instead of 5-10 to clean up but still, my time is worth more than anyone else's in this entire shop except one and it is still worth it to buy used frames and me be the one getting them into production.
(http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/archive/1/11/20080202231407!Beating-a-dead-horse.gif)
I get the math Alan, sounds like you have the time or are willing to make the time. I don't have the time and I am not willing to give up my nights or weekends to clean. Id RATHER buy new, just how we roll. I haven't bought new because I also don't have time to put them together, its really very simple. Shouldn't be anything wrong with that either. I make 1 comment that I don't want used, and all this from that? Why the fuss.
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Don't you mean your girlfriend will put them together? Cupcake?
Nah, when it comes time a employee would do it. That OK with you buttercup?
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can we get some blood from the horse?
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You don't have time to clean a frame.
You have time to spew your pompous bs all over the forum.
Does not compute.
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You don't have time to clean a frame.
You have time to spew your pompous bs all over the forum.
Does not compute.
OK I am going to beat Brandt to this one.
Me being Brandt
"I have thirty monitors, 20 massive over powered computers, voice recognition software, unlimited supply of internet images, in fact my computers are so smart they sense the image I am thinking of and produce it for me. I work at my computers all day long surrounded by monitors, no phones to distract me and I can type "think" forum responses as my hands are rendering graphics all at the same time."
Sound about right Brandt :D
All above meant as a joke of course.
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You don't have time to clean a frame.
You have time to spew your pompous bs all over the forum.
Does not compute.
OK I am going to beat Brandt to this one.
Me being Brandt
"I have thirty monitors, 20 massive over powered computers, voice recognition software, unlimited supply of internet images, in fact my computers are so smart they sense the image I am thinking of and produce it for me. I work at my computers all day long surrounded by monitors, no phones to distract me and I can type "think" forum responses as my hands are rendering graphics all at the same time."
Sound about right Brandt :D
All above meant as a joke of course.
You forgot my thermonuclear reactor, or something. No worries though I can take a joke and I can also multitask at a computer.
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My posts are for those who will listen to those who have been there and done that. Those who think they know how great a new roller frame versus an old used roller frame without ever having dealt with either of them should probably take the advice of so many guys who have done it before. If you take nothing from this entire thread other than you got a guy like Daryll mad then just know you've managed to do something I thought impossible. Even in the nastiest of threads D has managed to keep cool and try to keep the peace yet you've pissed him off. That should tell you something.
There are quite a few guys on this forum that know WTF they're doing and what they are talking about, then there are guys who want to know all they can, then there are the ones that really don't know what they don't know but think they've got it all figured out. Just because you've managed to make a buck in this industry up until now doesn't mean you're doing things the right way, or that you've made all the best decisions and you don't have more to learn, yet that's what it sounds like so often. I don't need to be on here trying to help people, I spend 80 hours a week dealing with screen printing in some form or fashion without this but I do it because I like to not see other people make the same F'ing mistakes that I made the first few years. I no longer wonder why some of the old timers that could do the most good on the forums no longer even mess with them.
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I promise I am not posting these pics to start things up, I just said I would. Plus, Brandt agreed to stop emailing me asking me if I would sell him any used ones I didn't want. ;)
Here is the worst shape one out of the 40 I picked up:
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab14/twincitytees/20130619_181037_zpsb2f6b21b.jpg) (http://s845.photobucket.com/user/twincitytees/media/20130619_181037_zpsb2f6b21b.jpg.html)
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab14/twincitytees/20130619_181054_zpsd5286c45.jpg) (http://s845.photobucket.com/user/twincitytees/media/20130619_181054_zpsd5286c45.jpg.html)
In this case, I am happy with the purchase($25ea.) but I too like Brandt will not buy some things used.... Food is the first item that comes to mind!
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wait, I don't see the MHM pins on them. Were these not from SPSI?
pierre
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wait, I don't see the MHM pins on them. Were these not from SPSI?
pierre
No sir, SPSI should still have the ones with the MHM pins, you may be able to get yourself a heck of a deal! From my understanding those MHM pins cost a few bucks...
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My posts are for those who will listen to those who have been there and done that. Those who think they know how great a new roller frame versus an old used roller frame without ever having dealt with either of them should probably take the advice of so many guys who have done it before. If you take nothing from this entire thread other than you got a guy like Daryll mad then just know you've managed to do something I thought impossible. Even in the nastiest of threads D has managed to keep cool and try to keep the peace yet you've pissed him off. That should tell you something.
There are quite a few guys on this forum that know WTF they're doing and what they are talking about, then there are guys who want to know all they can, then there are the ones that really don't know what they don't know but think they've got it all figured out. Just because you've managed to make a buck in this industry up until now doesn't mean you're doing things the right way, or that you've made all the best decisions and you don't have more to learn, yet that's what it sounds like so often. I don't need to be on here trying to help people, I spend 80 hours a week dealing with screen printing in some form or fashion without this but I do it because I like to not see other people make the same F'ing mistakes that I made the first few years. I no longer wonder why some of the old timers that could do the most good on the forums no longer even mess with them.
Alan what you do for the industry is awesome, said it over and over. Period.
Again context, I have zero problem with people pointing out other ways to do things, which is drastically different than zeroing in on me and making a reply referencing me or my situation then telling me how they would do it, then repeating it over and over or teaming up. If you don't see the difference I don't know what to tell you. People do this because they actually want to create drama. If they didn't they wouldn't quote me, reference me, my shop, or my situation. But they do, over and over with the same result. Like this thread almost 100% of the time I didn't even ask for a opinion or help in my statement if I should buy new or used, I actually made a very absolute statement. It's not complicated, if I have it wrong, let me do it wrong if I haven't asked for help.
I read posts on this site every day, often every one of them. I note info from people I respect. I noted your stance on the new vs used. In my situation, ill take new. I like new things and that reason alone is enough for me. You or others don't have to agree and I don't understand the need to justify anything to you guys on what I do with MY money in MY business. Learning? In my life I've learned I've had better results from new, which is why I prefer new. I don't doubt others have had a different experience. Notice how I said I and didn't suggest everyone do it my way.
If D is actually pissed off that's mind blowing to me and he has my apologies if so.
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This issue comes up with you what, once a month Brandt? Maybe even more frequently?
Hundreds of different people having the exact same problem with YOU and yet it's
everyone else's fault and not yours? You can't honestly believe that right?
Even this bewildering semi-apologetic post comes off as angry and confrontational?
Maybe it's time to re-evaluate your life?
In terms of forum health I think you're a suck. Just personally speaking, I try and help people
from anything I learn and all of the boneheaded eff ups I've made along the way. (get a post exposure
dip tank if you don't have one, you can even just use a garbage can) I, personally, am WAY less inclined to
try and help people or even post at all when there's folks like you around.
I mean you basically come into any thread and and start arguments. Damn near every time. You bait people
with statements meant to anger and then hide behind the excuse of everyone else ganging up on you
when you damn well know the things you are saying are intended to piss people off. That's childish and
cowardly and will ruin open discussion every damn time. And there's another term for it. Troll.
Sack up and stop with the BS. If you can't restrain yourself go somewhere else. We don't need you.
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This issue comes up with you what, once a month Brandt? Maybe even more frequently?
Hundreds of different people having the exact same problem with YOU and yet it's
everyone else's fault and not yours? You can't honestly believe that right?
Even this bewildering semi-apologetic post comes off as angry and confrontational?
Maybe it's time to re-evaluate your life?
In terms of forum health I think you're a suck. Just personally speaking, I try and help people
from anything I learn and all of the boneheaded eff ups I've made along the way. (get a post exposure
dip tank if you don't have one, you can even just use a garbage can) I, personally, am WAY less inclined to
try and help people or even post at all when there's folks like you around.
I mean you basically come into any thread and and start arguments. Damn near every time. You bait people
with statements meant to anger and then hide behind the excuse of everyone else ganging up on you
when you damn well know the things you are saying are intended to piss people off. That's childish and
cowardly and will ruin open discussion every damn time. And there's another term for it. Troll.
Sack up and stop with the BS. If you can't restrain yourself go somewhere else. We don't need you.
Wow are you seriously still going on?
You can't really pretend my original post here was drama or trying to start a argument:
This is my battle, most of our work is 23x31's, however some jobs 25x36's. I struggle with just maybe doing 25x36's only when I go all in on Newmans.
But I wont do used. I dont want someone else's problems, no matter the discount.
My post didn't suggest anything other than I (singular as in MY shop) wouldn't buy used. I didn't try to tell ANYONE how to do it when they buy. Why a few of you decided to jump on such a thing is odd to me. I probably wouldn't have even been back to the thread after that point other than to read it. But no, people quoted me and tell me how wrong I was. I didn't ask for help, advice, or solicit an opinion in my comment, I made a absolute statement about what I will do when the time comes. It should have been the end of it, it was for me.
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You have had your a$$ handed to you by more than a few respected members here. Time to think outside
the box of "I'm always right". You're a goddamned troll, plain and simple. Troll elsewhere.
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This is why I don't often post publicly here anymore. 25 years of experience that I love to share, but won't because of this stuff.
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You have had your a$$ handed to you by more than a few respected members here. Time to think outside
the box of "I'm always right". You're a goddamned troll, plain and simple. Troll elsewhere.
I am certainly not always right. Never said such either.
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Seriously just go away. You don't help, you only hurt. Go away.
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Seriously just go away. You don't help, you only hurt. Go away.
Look who's trollin now ;)
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I'm honestly asking you to please just go away for the benefit of the forum.