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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: ZooCity on May 21, 2013, 03:23:30 PM
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Maybe I should call it the "rat rod" Gauntlet thread but I wanted to start one for doing mods/upgrades to older GTs.
I'm going to tackle the following and figured I might as well share the experience and I'm sure a lot of you have had the experience already. This is the stuff that was obvious to me after running around 6k pcs on "Glen", our '92 GT-6 this past week or so:
- Platen and arm deflection
- Chopper and stroke pressure
- Stroke length adjustment
- Cycle speed
- Mitigating the constant squeegee pressure on the screen at rest.
Here's a first installment- chopper pressure v. platen deflection.
FYI, the 1 1/16" chopper cylinders do fit a 91-92 GT-6 just fine.
I do believe there's a reason the machine was spec'd with 3/4" choppers- there is some serious deflection going on on the outside of the press on both the pallet/pallet arm and the print head when running at higher pressures such as for WB/DC. Both the print head and the pallet/arm deflect away from each other like an alligator opening it's jaws. So it's a bit of a catch 22 where you can up your chopper pressure but you are simply causing more deflection if you use it.
All the same, I think the larger bore is an upgrade in that we seem to have more consistent pressure at various settings with these, including very light strokes with plastisol.
I think the deflection issue could be solved by installing the head supports (like used to mount an omni flash) and bolting the supports to the ground, preventing the head from flexing up. Then you'd need some sort of platen tip extension that would be supported from below at each print position, like on older American presses. If you could rig those two items up then you open up the door to using higher pressureconsistentlyacross the print stroke without frustrating registration and constantly throwing your press out of parallel. This sounds like the M&R all over setup that I've seen, maybe an older version.
It's probably overkill for such a small machine with a whopping 15" long image area and I'm surprised that a machine that was clearly very well built just flexes like crazy right where it really counts. Any other ideas to mitigate the deflection?
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I often thought the best way to handle the head deflection without downriggers(which look cheesy and get in the way a little) would be to go over the top with steel tubing to a center "shaft" that will force the head to stay down
the platen deflection might be easiest to fix with angle iron bolted on under the print arm...most of the defection is in the arm from what I remember.
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cross out number 3 and 5...no dice on either one.
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my thoughts on that one...the late 90's gauntlets had a thing that got rid of the pressure at rest, but they failed to work properly.
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You can make the print stroke shorter, but I've never seen it lengthened. (My life story)
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I was in the pool!!!
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haha, love that show....from what I have been told, you can move the flags but it is not going to do you any good. Something about the air in the cylinders needed to stop the head so it's going to screw up the stroke. I tried it once and fkd the whole thing up...oh it was a scene man....
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Interesting to my knowledge this is the first time I have seen anyone mention their press by name. I guess i need to get to know my press better and find out what its name is, not even sure if it is a he or a she. Huh!
And this is an interesting thread also.
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I haven't named any equipment yet, maybe we will go to work on that
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Ok then, let's jump to part two- Stroke Length Adjustment.
These look like they'd do the trick. Abt $135 a pop with the shock bumper.
(http://presstech.net/m_and_r/img-gaunt/images/s-products/stroker.jpg)
Another option would be replacing the rear clamp with an updated one but I reckon that's gonna cost more than $135 per head.
Stroke length is important not only b/c, "wth, why is this not on here to begin with" but also b/c your max cycle speed is clipped by how long it takes for the prox to signal the print stroke is complete.
Alos necessary to shorten the stroke if your specialty platens aren't a full 22" long.
I don't see any point in trying to lengthen the stroke on a machine- if it's not built for it, it's not built for it.
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does your press not have rear stroke adjustment? if not, BUY ONE(to try it). that is invaluable to be able to move the back stroke up
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This thread rules, as this is all things we are going to be doing to our press next month.
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First let me say this. I own the same era Challenger. The best way to fix all that is buy a newer machine.....lol If you bolt down the print arms you will see that the flex is in the pallet arms themselves. When you upgrade to the 1 1/16 you will notice the flex even more. My print arms are bolted to the floor and all it does is push the flex to the next weakest point. All of the older machines flex between the different brands. Some of the new ones even do it.
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Copy that JBLUE, but my suggestion was using aop style supports with a platen tip support built in so there's nowhere for anything to go. You would need to make the "tips" for the platen mount but I think it would work. This would be very similar to the old Americans with the neck board sticking out.
Probably not cost effective though.
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You can compensate for it by lowering the off contact a bit wher the stroke ends or even raise the pallet up a little on that side as well. I keep our pallets raked a little higher at the end of the stroke to balance it out. Ultimately what you are trying to even out is the pressure and its affects on dot gain throughout the stroke.
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You can make the print stroke shorter, but I've never seen it lengthened. (My life story)
we actually lengthened the print stroke on head 1 and 3 of our gauntlet. i can get 21.5" print stroke on those heads. 8)
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Funny Chris, I was just about to send you a PM asking what ever came of your auto.
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we actually lengthened the print stroke on head 1 and 3 of our gauntlet. i can get 21.5" print stroke on those heads. 8)
Say whaaaat?
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we actually lengthened the print stroke on head 1 and 3 of our gauntlet. i can get 21.5" print stroke on those heads. 8)
Say whaaaat?
yeah, what he said...Imma go measure right now.
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It wasnt real easy, but with John Sheridans help we got it done. lengthened the top bearing rods and the top steel mounting plate, holes machined in the plate, longer air cylinders, some extended airlines and cutting and moving some bracing. like i said, not an easy job, but its doable.
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Pictures.
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dont have any at the moment, ill see what i can get today.
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Hot rodding tip for those with prior to '94 Gauntlets/Challengers: the 1 1/16" SMC cylinders are not compatible with these presses unless you replace/update the squeegee holder bar. Found this out the hard way yesterday when my guy "upgraded" our remaining heads only to find they can't freely chop when the kip levers are locked...dang. The Bimba 1 1/16" in head 6 seems to be getting along just fine. So there's a heads up for anyone wondering. You can rod out the choppers but will need to make the hanger modification (or one of two other, more involved mods) if you want to go this big. Otherwise, stick with 7/8"
Also, I need to stick a plug in here for David Heath/Press Tech. The guy has been a great help for us this week. I get parts from a variety of sources for our GT-6 and all have been great to us but today Press Tech gets a big high five. Check out their parts sometime, thoughtfully organized, well priced and David is very knowledgeable on this vintage of M&R press.
http://presstech.net/m_and_r/gauntlets.html (http://presstech.net/m_and_r/gauntlets.html)
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Stroke cyls on these series 1 presses- rebuildable?
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no, they are sealed units...they aren't that pricey though...just do them one at a time and they aren't bad.
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Thx, I was looking at the wrong part, the ones for the RS are $175. These are only like $75 per head to replace with new.
Slowing figuring out where to draw the line with this machine in terms of money and time spent trying to get it to print as clean as possible. Certain design issues are just so great that it seems that no matter what we do, not matter how many parts we upgrade, some of the plastisol prints are just going to be sub par from what we do on the manual. Thinking this press will ultimately be used for specific kinds of jobs while we save for a different machine. Thank jebus we do mostly wb/dc here in low color counts!
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the early model presses will out print a manual, i turned out some of the best prints we've ever done on our gauntlet. they are fantastic presses...basic, but fantastic.
Why are you getting a better print on the manual? What is better?
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the early model presses will out print a manual, i turned out some of the best prints we've ever done on our gauntlet. they are fantastic presses...basic, but fantastic.
Why are you getting a better print on the manual? What is better?
Platen and print head deflection, affecting the top of the print, is why the manual will yield a superior print in some (well, most) cases. The "basic" part is no prob for me, can deal with and often prefer that but for all the things we've worked out successfully with the machine I can't find away around the deflection issue.
Didn't mean to sound whiny, we just pulled a job off the press before I posted that to go on the manual, exhausted all options on the GT, so I might've been a touch cranky with it.
I think the GTs are amazing and I will never have one thing to seriously bitch about with this press considering the low price we paid, availability of parts, incredible service/support (for a 23 yo press we didn't even purchase new!) it's reliability and how well built it is. It may well have a forever home with us in some capacity.
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hmm, i had a little deflection on ours, maybe i had less because it was a 99. i would get a really good tech in there to see if there is anything they recommend. you shouldn't see a ton of deflection without a ton of pressure.
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give it some more time zoo, we've called ours every name in the book and going from a manual to one of these oldies is a rather steep learning curve. I know that now, but back when we switched, we thought -hey, this can't be that hard?!...guess what...it is....they are great presses, we still have ours but only for the simple prints...sure beats the hell out of manual printing as long as it prints ok, it's when you are struggling through a job that you just want to kick the thing square in the balls....
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haha, I've only had a couple "f*ck you" moments with our GT fortunately, it gets a lot of love from us.
If you get down to nuts and bolts a lot of it's key components are identical to newer models. For instance the stroke cyl is not much different from new diamond backs and Sportsman's from what I can see. So the flood and sq are getting pulled with essentially the same part on this machine as a 2013 model. I think they have a lot going for them, it's really this deflection issue that's killing me. There's no clean way around it, just a design/build issue, nothing "wrong" just not quite right.
I just keep telling my printer how good we're going to be at running autos if we can make it all work on this one. It's good training as it forces you to think about things that newer, fancier presses might cover up.
How does a series II compare with the deflection issues Homer?
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Are you guys choking your underbase or spreading your top colors? I am finding that I could get away without choking or spreading on the manual and that just aint happening on the auto.
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Are you guys choking your underbase or spreading your top colors? I am finding that I could get away without choking or spreading on the manual and that just aint happening on the auto.
Generally same pre press as for the manual here. One thing we will do on certain single color prints needing a UB sometimes is use the same color ink on the UB screen as the top color screen. Just makes regging it up super fast on these presses where micro bumps can be a headache.
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My gauntlet II has a spot worn in the control panel from me hugging it :o...both machines are all air and the G2 prints almost like ac -minus the cool sounds when it prints, and compared to the '94, it's night and day....I can't say we have this deflection issue you are having, you're on S mesh and rollers so pressure must be at minimum, even with dc prints, we don't have that much
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Has anyone upgraded their compressor with more CFM and had to adjust the indexer?
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you guys will find this funny...but I actually like the gauntlet better than the RPM in some ways.
The gauntlet was a trooper. We had that press so dialed in that it wasn't even funny. I could print with zero trap and line everything up fine...with statics. I could get prints that felt like transfers. Ahh, I miss that poor bastard.
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Has anyone upgraded their compressor with more CFM and had to adjust the indexer?
CFM shouldn't affect anything. Pressure will though.
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That's encouraging Brad.
Homer, I'm jealous.
Gerry, as long as the previous compressor wasn't starving the press for air there should be no change. The FLR on the press is going to regulate things.
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Ahh I just finished printing 150 pieces PFP and realized I need to round the edges of the squeegees.
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Ahh I just finished printing 150 pieces PFP and realized I need to round the edges of the squeegees.
Yessir. they'll tear the screens up pretty bad
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Did you do Revolver Jerry?
If so, how did you like it on 150?
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Manual revolver lol. I am having some growing pains actually. The print was a golden yellow on navy. I initially had an underbase screen in head one choked back 1 pt and the top color in head 8. I got it lined up but the spread of the top color looked horrible where it fell off the underbase. I tried adjusting pressures and angles and just gave up and put the top color in head 1 and sent it around twice. I hated it but the print came out nice after I added some dulling paste to the yellow.
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Perfectionist, 1pt couldn't of looked that bad.
I find go around twice w/o revolver on the smaller runs works,
just say, "Don't pull, don't pull, don't pull...Pull!!
The alarm is nice sometimes though.
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Perfectionist, 1pt couldn't of looked that bad.
I find go around twice w/o revolver on the smaller runs works,
just say, "Don't pull, don't pull, don't pull...Pull!!
The alarm is nice sometimes though.
It didn't look that bad although I hated it totally but we were matching a previous print from another shop and they just PFP as well so to me it looked bad. Our PFP looked alot better though! On the first hit I just ran them by pushing the manual switch and when it came around I switched to auto as im still getting back into the groove of loading an auto.
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I wish the triloc would work on the Gauntlet. Im having a heck of a time getting used to the micros. I have a challenge coming up as well, 5 color back with an underbase, 4 color bottom front with an underbase bottom and a 3 color center chest with an underbase! Wish me luck, that's just one order. After that comes a 4 color with underbase! Im thinking I need to start using discharge again but the setup times would be hard to deal with ink in the screens not to mention our dryer would be a bottleneck.
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Good luck man! You will get your practice setting up on that job!
Honestly, on our first press I HATED setting things up, it took me forever! I bet it was close to two years of having it until I felt comfortable setting What's the password for the computer here? Now I didn't print that much so I didn't get a lot of practice, the guys that were printing picked it up kinda fast. But I learned on s manual and that was all I knew.
Stick to it, you will be doing to with your eyes closed in no time!
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Good luck man! You will get your practice setting up on that job!
Honestly, on our first press I HATED setting things up, it took me forever! I bet it was close to two years of having it until I felt comfortable setting What's the password for the computer here? Now I didn't print that much so I didn't get a lot of practice, the guys that were printing picked it up kinda fast. But I learned on s manual and that was all I knew.
Stick to it, you will be doing to with your eyes closed in no time!
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What year Gauntlet, so older one didn't work with triloc. Rich (244) can tell you for sure. My 97 I thought will fit the triloc.
Shane
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Ours is a 97 as well, Rich said it wouldn't work well on our machines because of platen deflection
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Manual revolver lol. I am having some growing pains actually. The print was a golden yellow on navy. I initially had an underbase screen in head one choked back 1 pt and the top color in head 8. I got it lined up but the spread of the top color looked horrible where it fell off the underbase. I tried adjusting pressures and angles and just gave up and put the top color in head 1 and sent it around twice. I hated it but the print came out nice after I added some dulling paste to the yellow.
1 pt is way too much if the press is dialed. I run .35- .5 at most. I hate the halo with an all out passion. I hate the base peeking out even more. Just like thick ink it looks crappy. Other than pallet flex that machine will print just as good as any new machine out there. Speed wise it is old but as far as print quality I would put my old Challenger up against any machine any day. Someone wanna bet a Challenger 3 on it........ ;D
The machine only knows how to pull the squeegee not set up the job. Take care of the machine and it will take care of you.
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Ours is a 97 as well, Rich said it wouldn't work well on our machines because of platen deflection
a little confusion here. The Tri-Loc won't work on series one presses due to flex in the front screen holder. The pallet has nothing to do with it. There was no TriLoc in those years and the deflection of the holders was not an issue. Just a FYI.
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Ahh I just finished printing 150 pieces PFP and realized I need to round the edges of the squeegees.
I would also tape the bottom of the screen with 2 inch painters tape. I tape the front and back where the squeegee stops and starts and also the end of the rounded blades on the sides. Round all blade edges even if they are double bevel. My print/flood you can not adjust, so it is consistant on all the screens. You will eventually see a nice ink haze mark where the squeegee stops and starts.
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Ours is a 97 as well, Rich said it wouldn't work well on our machines because of platen deflection
a little confusion here. The Tri-Loc won't work on series one presses due to flex in the front screen holder. The pallet has nothing to do with it. There was no TriLoc in those years and the deflection of the holders was not an issue. Just a FYI.
Here is a little trick I noticed on ours. Using a waterbase resistant emulsion that has silicon in it has reduced that flex a little bit due to less friction on the squeegee to screen contact area.
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Ours is a 97 as well, Rich said it wouldn't work well on our machines because of platen deflection
a little confusion here. The Tri-Loc won't work on series one presses due to flex in the front screen holder. The pallet has nothing to do with it. There was no TriLoc in those years and the deflection of the holders was not an issue. Just a FYI.
Here is a little trick I noticed on ours. Using a waterbase resistant emulsion that has silicon in it has reduced that flex a little bit due to less friction on the squeegee to screen contact area.
Bringo! I was just mulling over with my printer what else we can do to get better with our Gauntlet and I brought up a low rz emulsion as one thing that could help. What emulsion are you using? We're about to trial run a couple new ones in here. Any little thing we can do to minimize this issue is huge.
As far as tri-lock/pre-reg not working on the series 1 presses, they do "work", as in you can use a pin-lock or tri-lock system on these presses and it will be dead nuts on every now and then but mostly just close. Both the outer edge of the print arm and the outer edge of the platen deflect, up and down respectively like an alligator opening it's jaws. Unless your blade pressure and a few other factors are identical screen to screen, this is going to frustrate an attempt to get that sweet "lock and load" that's achievable with good pre-reg systems on presses with less deflection. It's more like "lock and groan" sometimes but some days it's right on the money, strike off and go. I would still highly recommend any type pre-alignment setup, even a basic one, to keep you from burning art high or low on screens.
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Ours is a 97 as well, Rich said it wouldn't work well on our machines because of platen deflection
a little confusion here. The Tri-Loc won't work on series one presses due to flex in the front screen holder. The pallet has nothing to do with it. There was no TriLoc in those years and the deflection of the holders was not an issue. Just a FYI.
Here is a little trick I noticed on ours. Using a waterbase resistant emulsion that has silicon in it has reduced that flex a little bit due to less friction on the squeegee to screen contact area.
Bringo! I was just mulling over with my printer what else we can do to get better with our Gauntlet and I brought up a low rz emulsion as one thing that could help. What emulsion are you using? We're about to trial run a couple new ones in here. Any little thing we can do to minimize this issue is huge.
As far as tri-lock/pre-reg not working on the series 1 presses, they do "work", as in you can use a pin-lock or tri-lock system on these presses and it will be dead nuts on every now and then but mostly just close. Both the outer edge of the print arm and the outer edge of the platen deflect, up and down respectively like an alligator opening it's jaws. Unless your blade pressure and a few other factors are identical screen to screen, this is going to frustrate an attempt to get that sweet "lock and load" that's achievable with good pre-reg systems on presses with less deflection. It's more like "lock and groan" sometimes but some days it's right on the money, strike off and go. I would still highly recommend any type pre-alignment setup, even a basic one, to keep you from burning art high or low on screens.
Kiwo One coat is what I have been using. Slick as snot. It is like non stick coating. I am going to keep using it with plastisol. Exposes super fast without diazo.
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Ah, we used to run Kiwo One. Great emulsion but too soft for wb/dc inks in my opinion. I did really appreciate how flexible the emulsion was, no cracking on the sq edges like with Aquasol.
The Polycol Z from them was the crazy slickest emulsion I've ever used. Like printing hot butter on smooth sheet of teflon. It's a dual cure with excellent resolution but took to darn long to expose for me at the time. Shooting 2up now, I'm looking at diazo again.
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I just got a couple gallons of their new one they formulated for the newer WB inks. The newer inks are starting to add solvents and its attacking more than ever. The new one is Versa-Tek Plus. Crazy high solids. Fast exposure too like the one coat. I am going to try it out on some screens this afternoon. Plus its pink so that makes me happy......lol
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Let us know how it works out.
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Let us know how it works out.
25 screens are coated and drying. Will be testing first thing in the morning.
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This is the second thread bemoaning the length of exposure. i ask why. One should not be exposing and printing the same screen on the same day. i.e. shoot screen on Monday, put on press Wednesday. I know there are times when re-shots are necessary. Only one that I can think of and that is a ripped screen on press. All other screen issues should be solved long before press. What I am saying is that scheduling is the most important and most overlooked issue in shops. I would not be concerned in the least if it took my screen person a day to get a screen right as I did not need it for at least two and sometimes three days. A quick emulsion is sometimes the worst thing you can have. You should choose your emulsion based on your exposure unit, ink, and trouble shooting skills. Pick one that holds up to the ink and gives you a window to adjust for film deviations. Getting off my soap box now. Have a great weekend.
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Agreed Sonny! We have had a rather anorexic screen library until recently so have needed to cycle screens very quickly. Adding another 100 frames to mitigate it.
Longer expo does cost more in electricity and bulb wear however, unless you have a fancy new LED unit.
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Agreed Sonny! We have had a rather anorexic screen library until recently so have needed to cycle screens very quickly. Adding another 100 frames to mitigate it.
Longer expo does cost more in electricity and bulb wear however, unless you have a fancy new LED unit.
I'll get right on that 100 frames. We do 'em some good mesh counts. We stretch 'em tight. We make 'em outta wood and aluminum for you. Call 'em hybrid. 8) :o 8) :o
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If every hundred frames I had meant I got art two days earlier, I'd have bought a thousand by now... :P
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We need someone who will stretch up some nice statics but with the right mesh counts for printing thick plastisol inks. I know someone who is working on that, I'll post more about it when the project is complete.
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We need someone who will stretch up some nice statics but with the right mesh counts for printing thick plastisol inks. I know someone who is working on that, I'll post more about it when the project is complete.
doing right now actually. ordered me up some 150/48 S mesh along with a few other counts...nobody can stretch a static to my satisfaction...I'll stretch it a few times during the day, let it rest over the weekend and glue it up on Monday, start the process over. takes a while but man are they tight....
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I'm hoping that I'll have a few to test out next week and I'll document tensions along the way. I'm hoping they come in at the right tension and then maintain that tension within 15% after a few runs through production. That's the goal and if they pass the test then I foresee there being a problem keeping them in stock.
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Reviving the Gauntlet hot rod/rat rod thread here.
We have a monster (for us) order coming up and the time has come to run our little '92 GT-6 as fast as it can possibly go. All other parameters regarding the print and the general condition of the press being taken care of already- where do I start tuning the machine to fly?
I know it's going to have something to do with upping the index speed/pressure and therefore re-tuning in the shock absorber/cylinder to accommodate that increased speed so it pops up correctly into the reg gates and isn't over or under shooting on the index.
I have our lift cyls set to exhaust as rapidly as possibly but that still seems slow. Not sure what else could be done to help the table drop more efficiently. On that note I suppose a very well tuned index could allow a faster lift though I haven't found our current lift settings to be too slow and understand that the faster you lift the more you could wear/mushroom out your reg gates and cam followers if the press isn't perfect regarding index and reg.
What's max cycle speed on a series 1 Gauntlet 6/8 anyways?
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yeah you have to tune the air in, the cushion adjuster and that large shock. Get all that done smooth then adjust the lift.
to tune the drop open the base and find the adjustor mac valve for the lift cylinder. that regulates the inlet flow, adjust that so it pops up.
To tune the drop you have to adjust the cushion screw. tune it so that when it drops you get a very mild 'thunk' and turn in a bit so that thunk just barely disappears.
as for max.. in 1994 I had a 6 color gaunt(or whatever it was called then) spinning at 98dz an hour after tuned up
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^^THAT is a blast. 98 doz/hr is killer, old 8/10 I was first on I couldn't get up much over 80 or I couldn't get the clunk out anymore.
1 more note, (IIRC your press is like this as well) --set the cushion while your OC is in the middle of the range, or in the position where you'll run it printing--tuned mine in the high line-up position, realized I had to re-tune it when I dropped OC to do fleece.
You want to print fast? Did you do those arms up proper yet? Tellin' ya... ;)
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No central o.c. on this one but what a great point. And John, that's pretty much the exact info I needed to do this.
If I could get this thing going over 900 pcs/hr I'd be shickled titless. That could drop 4 days of printing to 2 which is solid gold to us right now with our sched.
Thanks guys, I'll get to it here soon. Have a fresh bank of Mac valves to install while I'm at it.
Foo, I didn't have the balls to do the arm thing.
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on our gauntlet, it just wouldn't got hat fast anymore. I think the indexer cylinder was worn or something. We replaced the indexer solenoid and that helped, but it would never get above 65dz per hour dry cycling.
It might not go that fast anymore unless it's been pretty well rebuilt.
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That's about where we're maxing out now, around 700pcs/hr or so when doing a very short, fast print, like neck labels. But I think it can be pushed a little further with a good adjustment of the index speed and lift/lower. With a longer stroke going on it becomes really critical to index fast as possible.
We've replaced all stroke choppers, stroke cyls and will now have all the mac valves replaced. Index cyl is newer, lift cyls look quite new as well, but the index shock and various solenoids haven't been replaced so that might be the final step after this.
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Got 'er up to 960/hr dry cycling, 840/hr with a full length 1x stroke at medium/fast stroke speed. Not bad so far.
I tuned one thing at a time to learn how the adjustment worked and how sensitive the adjustments were. It took a little doing to manage the interrelated variables of the incoming air pressure, index pressure, index cyl stroke and decel and cushion, table up speed, and so on. Winston mentioned the decel adjustments on the index cyl and that was crucial to getting it set properly.
Not to turn this into a full blown troubleshooting thread but a few things came up related to this change in speed that I'm stumped on:
- When running in auto mode the press occasionally just stops. I'm guessing a prox needs adjusted somewhere. Or it's just the Omron controller doing it's thing.
- Table up into reg gates is randomly rough. As in, I'll have it running smooth as silk and then it will haul off and have a very rough, loud, table up, then back to smooth. I patterned it to see if it was the registration but it's not, there's absolutely no repeating pattern to it at all. It will go 8 indexes with no issue and the ninth is rough. Just tuned it again and lowered the speed that the table lifts to give it some more leeway in hitting the reg gates, ran it through a few dozen indexes, all good. Now I'm back in the office and can hear it running rough as hell all of the sudden. Air is consistent, this happens with compressor running or not. Can't nail down a cause here but my best guess is either the index cyl is beat and is inconsistent or I don't have consistent scfm and might need another air tank in line with the press or I need to replace all the cam followers used for indexing. If they have become oblong I bet that could cause this seemingly random mis-alignment of the table. Any thoughts? I have noticed that, when double stroking with a fast table up it won't hit the same spot twice tabling up, that is it will table up smooth into the gates, table down and back up rough. Seems odd that it would behave like that and maybe a clue?
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i have a question about the gauntlet.
Ours has Central OC, but for whatever reason, we still have to manually check and change each screen. We only use m3 frames, and they are always flattened right after tensioning.
So why do we have to constantly do this? shouldn't be just a simple slide in and go?
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It should go straight up.
Bearings also should be tight against the shaft,
not tilting from side to side slightly?
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Reviving this thread from the dead. Is it possible to alter a head to make it have a longer print stroke? Thinking about bringing ours back from the dead for bandannas
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Can't you just use every other head with bigger screens? What model Guantlet and year I thought you could adjust the screen holders to allow a larger screen thus longer stroke? I could be wrong
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on ours, it's a gauntlet s, so the print stroke maxes out at a certain point. i think it's 17". maybe 15"
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it's likely dependent on the length of the stroke cylinder (and clearance of it), along with the travel for the linear bearings that the squeegee/flood carriage run on...
if you were to be able to extend both of those you could get some extra travel, but you're probably looking at some serious modifications to the press to make that happen.
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If the head can accommodate the larger screeen, a longer stroke cyl and some mods to the rear holder might do it. Or buy a single head from a challenger or larger gauntlet of similar vintage and slap it on one head.
Let us know what you work out, I think turning an old Gauntlet into a 1 color oversize printer would be brilliant for a machine at the end of it's life, i.e. center bushing going out. <which, as far as I can tell, is the only thing that will ever kill these presses.
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so according to these pics, we'd need to extend:
-the rear screen clamp
-get a shorter, but longer print stroke cylinder
anything else?
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If there's nowhere for the stroke cyl to go inward toward the center shaft than you'd need a long print arm. Not aware of a cyl that is both "shorter and longer", sounds like magic.
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If there's nowhere for the stroke cyl to go inward toward the center shaft than you'd need a long print arm. Not aware of a cyl that is both "shorter and longer", sounds like magic.
don't you know that's all i do. Magic.
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you may be able to pick up some extra distance by drilling a big hole into the center mount of the press and pushing the cylinder back into there.
(or if you were modifying, maybe a 'band' cylinder...)
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Whoa, band cyls look magic enough to me. Try that if they don't cost a fortune.
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Retrofitting that cast head for a band cylinder will be magic, for sure.
Post pics if you do it. ;)
IIRC, JS did something like this with longer cylinders and rails a few years back. Maybe he has pics to post.