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General => Industry News/ Announcements/Press Releases/Product Promotion => Topic started by: Dottonedan on April 26, 2013, 11:30:37 AM
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:'(
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/26/world/asia/bangladesh-building-collapse/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 (http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/26/world/asia/bangladesh-building-collapse/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)
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Prayers for the families friends and injured. That's totally awful!
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So the Bank told it's employees to stay home but the garment factories owners insisted the employees show up for work.
Now they're in hiding.. Scumbags. And here we go- blame the US because we are after all, responsible for all other nations moral ethics, standards and code of conduct.
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What businesses can get away with is driven directly by our consumption of their goods and services.....While we may not condone such activities, if we give a corporation our money, we have some responsibilities for their action......If we take away our money, we take away all their power.....Supply and demand in the marketplace governs how corporations will act....
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What businesses can get away with is driven directly by our consumption of their goods and services.....While we may not condone such activities, if we give a corporation our money, we have some responsibilities for their action......If we take away our money, we take away all their power.....Supply and demand in the marketplace governs how corporations will act....
I agree with you.
In doing so, (after the fact) that we find out or feel they may not be worthy of our purchasing their products, it's difficult to get the world to pull together. Only during or after these catastrophes, do most of us take notice.
As we know through history, getting the majority together to act on something such as boycotting the purchase of products in foreign country's is a mountainous task. We already have some great groups in place like the group that Rick Roth from Mirror Image is very active in called Amenity international. While it's VERY good org, how many of us in the screen print industry (here in the US) actually know anything about them or are actually involved ourselves?
The poor conditions in 3rd world countries is not a new thing of course. We've all heard of it going on for years. I admit myself, I do nothing about it other than I reflect on what I'd like to do on occasions.
I admit, that I intentionally DO NOT use product from certain countries...but I rarely need that product anyways.
I think most of us go about our day/month/years rarely remembering those media notices, news briefs, youtube videos and articles that we occasionally see shown only when major stories take place. we know it happens "somewhere", but probably assume that ti's not the place we are going to use or that our product sold by our wholesalers are coming from upstanding suppliers and manufacturers.
We hear these horrible stories of Nike, Reebock, Wal-Mart and the like, ordering from overseas Co's and we do hear on occasions of these stories.
I will add in here, that from my own experience while working at Disney, I'll say that they do have departments that their only existence is to check up on and keep these overseas and even US companies in check. Mostly, they stay on these Co's they use outside the US, but they do cover the US as well. I know that, only because I looked into it a little myself while working there.
Their are several major or key organizations that all of our US company's and even outside the US are a part of. It's a global effort to keep these businesses in check. bevcoming a member is voluntary.
I will say, that I know Disney literally has a list of company's and even entire countries that they will not do business with. They do not permit any $ going to anyone or any country on this list that fails. Some are permanent until further notice.
For one organization that I remember reading over: If you fail a check you are given some time to correct it. If you failed the 2nd time, you banned from the opportunity to do business with Disney and all orders were stopped in their tracks and cancelled immediately with no compensation to any financial loss. After a year, and were found to have corrected the issues, you were on a probationary period of another year where you are more often check with on site inspections. This organization is only (one part) of a list of organizations that keep these companies in check. For example, Disney (going from memory), had about 6 different "global" organizations that they were a part of that all pertained to fair trade, the safety and health of the people. In addition, they were also a part of US organizations. With all that said, I'm sure there is always a potential of something falling thu the cracks as well as possibly even some pay offs.
They are always doing multiple trips a year from various departments and divisions or even corporate trips pertaining to doing business. Even the art department managers and usually a group of 3-4 artist would volunteer to attend these trips to these countries and businesses.
I never did. I was never fond of the idea of doing a 16 hour flight, running from business to business all within 3-5 days and then flying back again for another 16 hour flight. It would have been nice to say, Yea, I been to China, but...it wasn't exciting to me.
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And here we go- blame the US because we are after all, responsible for all other nations moral ethics, standards and code of conduct.
Though hesitantly, I had to respond, but of course, if we continue in this direction, the thread will require a split to the controversy cage.
First off, I saw nothing about blaming the US per se, but rather the plain and simple fact that companies from the West (not just the US) demand lower and lower prices, causing penny-pinching by the manufacturers.
Since many of the shirts are already crap and probably can't be made much cheaper, the pennies get pinched in other vital areas.
You may also notice that another finger of blame is pointed at lax building and safety codes and enforcement (something to be considered by those who decry "big" government)
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What you just said is if the tables were turned this is exactly how the US would operate it's businesses?
The thoughts expressed in this post are appreciated- That is because a certain moral conduct is ingrained, therefore expected. (Culture)
I'm just 'simply' expressing my 20yrs+ inside view of the 3rd world culture.. That's half my life. This is not an outside lookin in point of view.
They/we are first humans before business entities. If we have a certain moral conduct then that is how we conduct ourselves.
I'll give no sympathy to corrupted values, even if my grand parents told me folk stories.
Frog if you look all the way to the left, you must look a little further left to find me..
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Well Frog, this may be the one that puts this thread in the cage.
This sort of thing would happen in the US until the labor movement.
Just saying.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire)
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Sad News! May God Comfort those families involved.
We ARE a big part of the problem.
We want More, Faster, Cheaper!
Phucke the Nikes, Aidisias, Walmarts, Gaps, yada,yada, yada whom on high horses preach "green living, philate free,
environmently friendly,sustainable BULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLSHITT. While we know products are being produced in all kinds
of "unsafe for humans" conditions here and abroad. Period!
What about Personal Responsibility, Corporate Responsilility being masked by "GOOD" People?
As an Industry, what can WE do about it? REFUSE to do More, Faster, Cheaper! Do not Put up with, Encourage, Cutting Prices,
So that these selfish BA$$$$$$TARDS can enjoy their Sunday Brunch at the country club, followed by dinner at eight, at
trendy café while on the backs of people all over the world, including the USA, lose money but are going to make it up in
volume for these "fine upstanding companies".
I Publicly Call All USA Manufactures of Equipment, Inks, Supplier, Service Providers, etc. to REFUSE to do business, with anyone
who puts innocent people as risk of injury ,loss of life, from dangerous work conditions! PERIOD
I more than realize this might affect "our" Sunday Brunch, because is will hurt our bottom line, BUT, So Be It!
Or, WE ARE THE PROBLEM !
It will start with ME.
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winston
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WE are not as big a part of the problem as you think.
It's not about PRICE, it's about PROFIT. These goods could be made here for the same price to the consumer, but the SHAREHOLDERS demand higher DIVIDENDS and the CEOs demand higher BONUSES, so costs are cut where the costs are highest: the workforce.
Companies don't want to pay workers fair living wages and spend the money it takes to provide safe workplaces and a safe environment for everyone. It's about the BOTTOM LINE, not the PRICE TAG.
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I am not so sure America is able to produce a garment here in the states priced comparably to that of Guetemala or the like.
At current price structures, lets say it takes 2.60 to produce a design on a tee at multiple colors+ garment cost. Even us small shops can't produce a tee at 4.60 when they outsource it for 3.20 all invlusive shipped. It would be a pipe dream to say " ok the US is going back to 1950's pricing, so everyone who makes something, drop your prices so that it snowballs and rolls the economy back and we can start all over. All Corp. leaders and shareholders can take a pay cut.
I see where your headed, but don't see a way to feasibly get there in today's world.
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Worker Safety is Not Negotiable at Any Price!
If it can not be done at a satisfactory profit, then don't do it.
If one chooses to break the rules, then he must pay the price.
As of my last read, 341 people are gone.
At an average of $39.00 per month. For What?
So WE can have the latest fashion?
To high of a price for ME!
This is nothing new. The garment industry has and is full of a bunch of WHHHHores!
WE can choose not to participate in THEIR lack of morals.
It is not rocket science. Put our money where our mouth is.
As far as USA made? Not hard for small ventures! Can be very profitable. An so what it cost, a $1.00 more
to manufacture a product here? I for one will gladly pay the difference!
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We still produce fabric here in the USA that is exported to other countries.
It takes say 1 to 1 1/2 yards per shirt (average)
For SCHitts And Grins say $1.00 per yard
A shirt can still be sewn in downtown LA for 69cents.
Printers in So Cal are printing full color at 65-75cents
Baja California is 65 cents includes full print, print neck label, folded and bagged.
With California being the most expensive state to operate in, I am sure production can be done in other states
at a lower cost.
add these cost together, and there is still plenty to be made here in the USA.
Not as cheep as Bangladesh, but just fine for most!
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These goods could be made here for the same price to the consumer, but the SHAREHOLDERS demand higher DIVIDENDS and the CEOs demand higher BONUSES, so costs are cut where the costs are highest: the workforce.
I would sure like to see your math on this....I read some where that on average there was 0.63 hours of labour in a pair of jeans made in Bangladesh... Say 0.20 an hour in pay so this is about 0.13 cents...In the US this same amount of labour would be over 7.00......So I can not see 15.00 jeans at Old Navy still being 15.00 if made in the USA.....
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These goods could be made here for the same price to the consumer, but the SHAREHOLDERS demand higher DIVIDENDS and the CEOs demand higher BONUSES, so costs are cut where the costs are highest: the workforce.
I would sure like to see your math on this....I read some where that on average there was 0.63 hours of labour in a pair of jeans made in Bangladesh... Say 0.20 an hour in pay so this is about 0.13 cents...In the US this same amount of labour would be over 7.00......So I can not see 15.00 jeans at Old Navy still being 15.00 if made in the USA.....
Bangladesh uses raw human power to produce the product we would use machines that could produce hundreds of pairs of jeans an hour big difference.
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15 dollar jeans at Old Navy? Aren't they more like $30? Where is that money going? Stock market gamblers.
Math don't mean sheit until we know how much the CEOs get for bonuses for innovative ideas like "saving" on production by outsourcing to sweatshops in places like Bangladesh, where there ain't no unions or government regulations getting in the way of those little black lines on the big board meeting charts going up, and people are used to yummy chemicals in their drinking water, and too poor and powerless to complain about it.
You know some fancy-suit-wearing someone got a big treat for that move to that factory, and likely won't shed a tear for those who lost their lives. War profiteers call them "collateral damage." There's probably some fancy Six-Sigma-type term for them in the blue jeans trade.
Do these jeans make me look fat?
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as one of the few that actually lived outside the US/Canadia for a very long time and has been part of society that paid their PhD's about $100/month I'd like to chime in here.
1. what happened there is CRIMINAL behaviour, not business. Bank and the shopping mall were closed due to the cracks, it's the manufacturing that decided to stay open. The managers are going to be prosecuted for their decisions. It should be treated different from somebody structuring the company in unsafe and unethical way for the sake of increasing profit.
2.$39 per month could be a lot of money to the ppl working there. We don't really know that. From our perspective it is not worth the headache, but that amount of money probably buys them 2 meals a day and pays for the roof over the head. What is that in US, $1k/month? Do not judge their pay by the actual amount, but rather on what it buys and how it compares to the national average income. Chances are, ppl in those factories were making more than the average.
3. they need work in order to grow. If we took all our $$$ away from them, it would be very difficult to develop and grow. As they get better and time goes by, things will get better. Look at China, not too long ago, they were the place to go. Now they are getting expensive and are starting to stand on their own legs. Factories are getting cleaned up, workers are making more money and having better living standards. It has gotten to the point that many are leaving China for cheaper places. Eventually, in this global economy, the prices across the globe will level out and things will change.
Just to be make sure, the accident was an absolutely horrible event. Hundreds of ppl dying is a tragedy and the responsible individuals should suffer for it, but let's look at the big picture and let's not lump the criminals with the rest of the business owners. Instead of boycotting the places and reducing their ability to learn and grow, we should extend our hand and help them. As already mentioned, Rick Roth is heavily involved in good causes, both here in US and internationally. Rather than just talking about it, if you can't figure out a way to help, drop him a line and see if he has any suggestions. Chances are, he will.
pierre
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I hear ya blue moon!
I too have worked in many third world countries. Installing / moving machines from 50' belt printing lines, presses etc.
I have witnessed first hand people lifting these machine with cranes to upper levels of "out of code" construction.
I have worked in production of companies producing 3 million plus a month.
Bangladesh has always had a garment industry!
5 years ago not so much, as today which is exploding!
Big companies have been moving their production, because, they are the "cheapest labor today".
Tomorrow Sub-Sahara Africa or Haiti at 11cents per hour.
Many whom own and operate these facilities know that they are only as good as their last "atta boy".
In these high density cities that go vertical, with sub standard construction, which "kinda works" until the factories
start overloading buildings with Machinery, supplies in container quanity shipments (up to 80,000 lbs of ink per container
with a footprint of 8' x40') or like my last MHM 16/18 with 8000 lbs on a 4' x 6' foot print. Or containers of garments stacked
with pallets, lined up like Christmas trees. These facilities that take on this new load of work are shifting from manual tables to
machinery. No big deal if load calculations on per square foot rules are observed. On main floor levels, no problem! Since some
of these companies don't know how long their "good luck"" will last, OR they fail to properly plan for growth in this "new world
market". Remember these companies, had their product being produced in another country, not long ago, and these new
companies know very well that their commitment with the work being sourced is competitive. Very few companies enter into
long term contracts. A lot of the factory owners don't honestly know, and some just don't care. With out some type of "loyalty"
in the garment industry (oxymoran) This cycle will repeat it self over and over again. I remember seeing where a die cutting
machine fell through three stories on a building in one of these countries. Whose fault was it? The building owner, the shop
owner, the poor press man, the salesman who sold the cutter, (who did not know the weight), the code enforcer, or the company outsourcing the job. You can bet the insurance company will blame them all, and say we are so sorry but......
winston
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http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/02/world/asia/bangladesh-us-tshirt/index.html?hpt=hp_c2 (http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/02/world/asia/bangladesh-us-tshirt/index.html?hpt=hp_c2)
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[url]http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/02/world/asia/bangladesh-us-tshirt/index.html?hpt=hp_c2[/url] ([url]http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/02/world/asia/bangladesh-us-tshirt/index.html?hpt=hp_c2[/url])
Thats a CNN opinion from a source that who knows if they are correct or way off on their estimate. I do not doubt it would cost more to make in the US for obvious reasons but I would prefer hearing from actual garment manufactures based in the US how much a comparable item would cost to make.
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[url]http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/02/world/asia/bangladesh-us-tshirt/index.html?hpt=hp_c2[/url] ([url]http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/02/world/asia/bangladesh-us-tshirt/index.html?hpt=hp_c2[/url])
What about transportation cost? In addition to trucking the product to every state in the USA, there's the added cost of shipping the raw materials to and the finished garments from Bangladesh. On ships. Big ones, for great distances, by shipping companies that are also foreign.
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The bottom line is market determines what we in business get to sell.....I still quote Canadian Made tees from time to time but have not sold any in years...
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I hear ya blue moon!
I too have worked in many third world countries. Installing / moving machines from 50' belt printing lines, presses etc.
I have witnessed first hand people lifting these machine with cranes to upper levels of "out of code" construction.
I have worked in production of companies producing 3 million plus a month.
Bangladesh has always had a garment industry!
5 years ago not so much, as today which is exploding!
Big companies have been moving their production, because, they are the "cheapest labor today".
Tomorrow Sub-Sahara Africa or Haiti at 11cents per hour.
Many whom own and operate these facilities know that they are only as good as their last "atta boy".
In these high density cities that go vertical, with sub standard construction, which "kinda works" until the factories
start overloading buildings with Machinery, supplies in container quanity shipments (up to 80,000 lbs of ink per container
with a footprint of 8' x40') or like my last MHM 16/18 with 8000 lbs on a 4' x 6' foot print. Or containers of garments stacked
with pallets, lined up like Christmas trees. These facilities that take on this new load of work are shifting from manual tables to
machinery. No big deal if load calculations on per square foot rules are observed. On main floor levels, no problem! Since some
of these companies don't know how long their "good luck"" will last, OR they fail to properly plan for growth in this "new world
market". Remember these companies, had their product being produced in another country, not long ago, and these new
companies know very well that their commitment with the work being sourced is competitive. Very few companies enter into
long term contracts. A lot of the factory owners don't honestly know, and some just don't care. With out some type of "loyalty"
in the garment industry (oxymoran) This cycle will repeat it self over and over again. I remember seeing where a die cutting
machine fell through three stories on a building in one of these countries. Whose fault was it? The building owner, the shop
owner, the poor press man, the salesman who sold the cutter, (who did not know the weight), the code enforcer, or the company outsourcing the job. You can bet the insurance company will blame them all, and say we are so sorry but......
winston
As of Today, over 600 have lost their lives.
It looks like "first call" is that the vibration of heavy equipment followed by shoddy
materials and construction are to blame. Building was designed/built in 2004. Architects
said use of building was designed/permitted as a perdestrian mall, and the even the
first floor was not designed for ANY industrial uses. One of the problems that I have seen
first hand, is that most of these people in these countries, have ANY experience with "heavy
industrial equipment" , let alone the installation requirements, operation, and how to
maintain the said machines. In this instance, this was a disaster waiting to happen. It
could have been avoided. Lets not let it happen again!
winston