TSB
screen printing => Separations => Topic started by: AdvancedArtist on March 29, 2013, 02:22:24 AM
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So lets break this color/separation thing down..
What is color?
How does it work?
How is a pixel different from vector?
Why is Adobe PhotoShop the last tool you want in your separation tool kit? Unless you want to do major work arounds which is why we have had so many problems with things like Sim Process. I hate those two words Simulated Process they have lead an entire industry into ignorance. Even further, thousands of shops have turned away billions of dollars in work and clients because of the Simulated Process ignorance over the last 15 years or so.
Why do PhotoShop separators need big bucks to separate?
Want answers... post up.
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I'll continue with some of your points and add few of my own . . .
I think your point of using Corel instead of Photoshop is most likely valid unless, as you said before, you know how to set up the color profiles that will be directly related to the equipment one is using. I don't see many of us doing that!
There are few other issues with Corel though. Most ppl use photoshop so Corel would be another expense and another program to learn. I've also heard of many ppl complaining how the program is not stable and it has issues. So for Photoshop users, Corel is often not an option. It does however have a distinct advantage in several areas (price, ease of use (as I am told), and now it seems ability to remove the color calibration presets).
At the end of the day though, no software will be as flexible as the actual separator. A person doing the job will have some forethought and will be able to lay down a solid yellow and add a little bit of red to create the gold color. Most programs just split those and remove the red component from the yellow thus potentially generating gaps in the print. Even the most powerful separation software on the market ($15K) still only splits colors. It does it better than other packages, but when ti is done, it still needs to be adjusted.
To us, pursuit of high end prints is worth the little extra we have to spend and pay to have our work separated manually. To many, push button seps are all they need, but I have seen highest end push button seps and they can't compare with the stuff we get from Dan. I know the skill and time needed to separate the work we send and I do not find the price he asks to be big bucks. As a matter of fact, I have told him on more than one occasion that he is too cheap!
pierre
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$15K for sep software better do it as good as dan, or it's not worth it. it would be cheaper to train an employee to use a plugin better, or sep from scratch.
that being said, I think to date PS has been the best sep option for raster images. I have done a few jobs with Simple Seps Raster and it works great, some jobs don't turn out right, but i know that ahead of time and don't take it to the press
Corel is a great tool, I would rather not own Adobe products, but they are the standard in many industries, so it's a must.
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I find these kind of questions fascinating, if for anything, because they stir up so many different emotions/thoughts/viewpoints that are in my opinion, too complicated. Then again, maybe I like to keep things simple.
In the case of screenprinting, color is the ink you're putting onto the shirt, plain and simple. Everyone gets too mucked up talking about gamut and the like but it all comes down to one thing and that's ink flowing through mesh, nothing more. When people start talking about how the color on the monitor translates into the color on the tee, they tend to make it more difficult than it needs to be by getting into the technical aspects of how a computer reproduces or presents colors on the screen forgetting that the final product is going to be made with ink, not pixels and the color gamut on the screen has no effect on the inks you'll be putting down onto the tee.
To answer how it works; if you understand how the inks reproduce color on the tees, you don't need to know about how colors work inside a computer. You only need to know how the inks work on the tee in whatever percentages you're using. For instance, 10% of red on top of 100% of yellow on top of 100% base looks like what?
Pixels are raster, therefore based in resolution. Vectored is by definition based in mathematics and can be altered without losing clarity giving you a cleaner line regardless of how large you make it. Rastered images cannot do this. The simple answer is rastered is dirty, vectored is clean although that's far too general for most people to adopt.
Photoshop is the first tool I want in my toolbox. I don't know who told you it's the last but every designer/separator I've worked with in my entire career turns to Photoshop to do their raster seps, nothing else.
To answer your last question, refer to the sentence you wrote immediately before it.
To illustrate Pierre's point as to why the high dollar separations programs don't really work and it all comes down to a human being, see the picture below of one of my seps. Programs can't do this kind of work, only humans can.
(http://www.risingsungraphics.com/images/hustler.jpg)
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Ummmmm, where can I get one of those? :P
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Ummmmm, where can I get one of those? :P
Your local escort service?
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I think Pierre made two great points. First being that, for most, push button seps are all that are needed. And the second is, even the highest end push button steps don't compare to a talented manual separator. I think at the end of the day it all depends on the individual artwork and the client's desired result.
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Everything I do is a workaround. :P I don't know how may things I've taught myself how to do in PS that I eventually learn an easier way.
Photoshop is the best illustration software out there (with the possible exception of Corel's Painter.) Vector programs are indispensable for drafting, type and graphic shapes, but for the hand-painted or airbrushed look, vectors simply don't compare. Yeah, you can make some pretty killer art in vector apps that don't look like they're vector, but it's still bending vectors and applying fills. Hand-blending and natural brush strokes can't be done in vector. You can't mix pixels like pigment unless you are in a pixel editing environment.
Vectors are overrated. Many shops mistakenly ask for vector art, when high-res raster files will do. This comes from laziness of not wanting to explain the intricacies of resolution to a layman... asking for a "vector file" of a photograph or painting (I've seen it many times) only confuses the matter. Any 300 ppi file that I've ever done can be reproduced on a billboard.
Each sep job is different. Each will require a different approach. I've used a couple of plug-ins and they work fine for the basic jobs, but like Pierre said, they don't know when to make the underlying colors thicker or thinner. In the end, a good separator can surgically give attention to specific areas in a design using paintbrush, airbrush and other photo-editing tools that the vector programs simply don't have.
I'm actually really impressed with what can be done in Corel Draw. Honestly, I think it's superior to AI in many ways. Being able to sep raster images directly in Draw is huge and a boon for most shops just getting into halftones. But Photoshop will always be the software of choice for the artist who seps their own work or the sepper who needs to edit their seps directly in the channels using raster editing tools... especially if attention needs to be given to a certain area of the channel.
Plug-ins are great tools for those just getting their feet wet. But like any DIY solution, it's only going to get you so far before you hit the ceiling of what is possible. Eventually, you'll want to graduate to hiring a pro or learn how to sep manually in Photoshop, where you have total control of the image.
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Corel is not an option for Mac users, unless they want to load Windows on their Mac. I've got it on mine to use with Ghostscript. I did use it for credit card processing until Square came along, and I've got an older version of CorelDraw on there, but I never use it.
There's pretty much nothing you can't do in Photoshop. I've done a lot of offset print work in Photoshop. The only real impediment is file size on large format work.
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Interesting replys for the record I am talking about color and not push buttons seps. Push button is nice but understanding the process is even better even as some of you have pointed out.
What if it was really actually very simple, but in the development of the process of raster separations some errors were made in understanding color as it relates to screen printing? Causing the process of separations to become something that is far more difficult than it ever should have been. I am not pointing fingers relating to anyone is this thread I am just asking.
Case in point. For years we have heard you can only do Simulated Process in PhotoShop. Which was false information coming out of a lack of understanding relating to color. I have installed a 16 year old copy of CorelDRAW 8 on my system and separated flawlessly with it.
So looking at the facts and history it is very possible that what this Industry has come to believe and understand about color, color separations and applications could contain even more false information.
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Ummmmm, where can I get one of those? :P
They sell these every where but they're damn expensive! ;D
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Ummmmm, where can I get one of those? :P
you wouldn't know what to do with it pops haha...
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To illustrate Pierre's point as to why the high dollar separations programs don't really work and it all comes down to a human being, see the picture below of one of my seps. Programs can't do this kind of work, only humans can.
Would you be open to exploring this comment in greater detail? What if a program could do it say in 45 seconds? What if a program had sufficient separations options working with correct color models and math so that an image like the one you provided was a piece of separation cake? What if you could virtually instantaneously separate an image like the one you attached into 2 colors, 4 colors or 6 colors with multiple Pantone colors for the flesh if that is what you wanted?
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If that were the case, and it happened to be your program, then perhaps discussions about it may be better placed in our Product Promotion section.
If however, you have some general information pertaining to the art and science of separating colors for screen printing, you have an eager audience.
(for that matter, even posts about your specific program(s) generally have a pretty good, receptive audience. ;) )
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Interesting discussion Tom.
8)
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Ummmmm, where can I get one of those? :P
you wouldn't know what to do with it pops haha...
Well, I know that, but now everyone else does..... Thanks. ::)
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To illustrate Pierre's point as to why the high dollar separations programs don't really work and it all comes down to a human being, see the picture below of one of my seps. Programs can't do this kind of work, only humans can.
Well this a blanket statement coming from someone who has obviously not used all the push button seps systems in the market. The image in this in post could be seped manually in less than 20 minutes in DRAW.. Pull the Brightness.. Pull the hue and then depending on what I want to do I could sep the hue/flesh with the tone curve into several shades of flesh easily. Of course I would rather just select options and click a button but either way it is not difficult. And I am not saying that there are not seps that are difficult but if you have the right color model and the right tools it sure beats the hell out of trying to push color back into place.
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To illustrate Pierre's point as to why the high dollar separations programs don't really work and it all comes down to a human being, see the picture below of one of my seps. Programs can't do this kind of work, only humans can.
What if you could virtually instantaneously separate an image like the one you attached into 2 colors, 4 colors or 6 colors with multiple Pantone colors for the flesh if that is what you wanted?
I think the image would look pretty poor separated into 2 colors ;)
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3 might be a minimum but you could pull off a fairly decent print with two color in HSB because the hue could be toned down or dialed in with brightness.
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I have been playing with HSB for several weeks on Photoshop. So I don't know any technical art terms because I am not an artist, so please bare with me.
ok.
1. I created a colour wheel with hue increment of 5 or 10 degrees, with different saturation and brightness radially.
2. I extracted out the brightness leaving just the saturation/hue.
Now this is what baffles me.
If I use the hue/saturation method to extract the colours, it will cover more hue/angles. But if I use colour range it will cover less even though I have it at 200.
I must be doing something wrong.
The hue/saturation method I used is the same as the one listed below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4yKHHODimg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4yKHHODimg)
Thanks
Anthony.
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I can bare with you but you are really are in the wrong application to separate HSB for several reasons which you are demonstrating with your difficulties. Color for screen printing is a convoluted mess in PS which is why these PS users are lost in the land of Simulated Process and miss directing an entire industry with the Sim Process Urban Legend.
Just like they told us this can only be done in PhotoShop for the last like 15 years when DRAW could have done it better all along. Filter your information with truth and look at color based on established math and science not PhotoShop user opinions that are not based in truth or any genuine understanding of color.
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See folks,
there's alot of different tools out there.
They all do the same thing,
but,
they're all different in how they get to the end result.
In methodology alone...quality, for digital, is just fine whichever way you go,
It really is (almost) all good.
The only thing that isn't good about it, is the fact that creative people take sides,
based on a brand.
Don't be f*cked.
.02
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When you understand color and you understand your applications then you can make informed decisions about how you want to separate.
Color Space Color Gamuts Color Models and Screen Printing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuLqCZOaHBY#ws)
At the end of the day both Corel and PS can do this but PS makes it more difficult due to some significant issues in PSs color engine.
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My question is why do you have to seem so hostile about this topic and constantly call out ignorance which in my opinion disrespects a lot of people on this site that are professional photoshop seperators who know how to use their software and understand separating for screen printing just as well if not better than you do. There is folks here that have stepped and also printed award winning shirts and I have one of them award winning shirts hanging in my office, no push button sep software or plugin could come close to creating the seps that the artist did for that shirt. The difference between the software no matter the software and a human is that the human understands how ink works on shirts, understands how ink works on bases, understands how ink works through different mesh counts and understands how inks play together in different print orders. Software cannot do that it only knows one thing and thatis how to do what it is told to do on screen.
Not saying your technique cannot do a decent out of the box job, but I would love to see it used in comparison to a human seperator with a non cherry picked graphic.
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Concerning the video I shared two posts back.. Here is a Quote from Mark Caudrey concerning that video and the science of color from another Industry forum.
Quoting Mark
Normally I tend to stay out of the forums, but occasionally something really interesting comes along and I'll dive in, usually to my regret. I hope not this time. This is a really nice video and I agree with much of what is being said. HSB has been a really wonderful space to calculate color in, and in fact we have been doing it very, very successfully since 1994. The most powerful (and expensive) separation program on the market is ICISS. It is entirely HSB based and has been since it was released commercially in 1995. We were instrumental in the design and development of it and it is the basis for NetSeps.com color separations. Well over 50,000 high end seps have been delivered to printers since we started NetSeps online in 1999.
I think there needs to be some clarification about HSB compared to sRGB, Adobe RGB, and all the other color spaces. The key word here is "color space." There are dozens of color spaces: sRGB, RGB, HSB, HSL, LCH, L*a*b*, XYY, XYZ, YCH, and the list goes on and on. All of them are derived from XYZ which is modeled after what the human eye perceives. To get the values, the CIE uses what is called the Standard Observer. This is comprised of averaged perceptual visual data response from 2000 healthy people under specific color viewing conditions. All of the other "spaces" are mathematical derivations of the human response.
So. . . all very complex, very techie. What does all this mean? Simply, every space contains some subset of what we can see. In some cases (YCH) the space is actually bigger than what we can see. In the case of SWOP CMYK or sRGB, the pigment values being used to represent the gamut are the limiting factor to how much color we can reproduce.
Why do we choose one space over the other? The answer is very, very simple. It's about how color interaction is calculated. The shape of the gamut makes is easier or more difficult to calculate. The goal is measured color in = measure color out. What You See Is What You Get, not a guess based on some arbitrary overlapping extraction of color.
If you look at the shape of the gamut in Tom's example you'll notice it looks like an inverted iceberg. Very difficult compound shape. The computer uses complex mathematics to take this continuously changing shape and blend the values accurately. It is flippin crazy complex.
When we were developing ICISS, it was necessary to hire two PhD mathematicians to interpret the printed data, develop the algorithms and then make it usable. It amounts to continuous 3D calculus. I've taken calculus and know how to use it, and it was WAAAAYYYY beyond anything I had ever done. This is one of the reasons that program is so expensive. There is REAL math and science behind it, not just color extraction.
If you look at the wire frame in Tom's video, the process in the past has been designed to break the gamut into polygonal shapes and calculate the color of each shape. Much easier to do, but not all that accurate as color does not easily blend. You are essentially calculating panels of color between color.
Spaces like L*a*b* and HSB are essentially represented as spherical shapes that are much easier to calculate with less distortion and color shifting. No matter what color space you are using, some distortion will occur BECAUSE the human eye does not perceive color precisely based on the calculations. All color separations are based on relative color matching (as in one color relative to the next color)
The human eye sees things based on human perception, and there are gliches and errors in the correction. We have a mental short circuit with some colors. For instance, if you add black to yellow you do not get dark yellow, you get muddy green. Look at the Pantone book on the page that has Pantone 109 and look at what happens to the yellow as it moves to 110, 111, and 112.
The reason we chose HSB way back in '93-'94 was because it was the space that's easy to conceptualize for an artist. Most artists are not programmers or mathematically inclined. The computer calculates color as a set of 3 numbers .
H= Hue = Color Name = 0°-360° as in a color wheel that everyone knows. We call the number assigned to the H value the Hue Angle for that color.
S = Saturation = Purity of the color = 0% (no color) - 100% (pure color.),
B=Brightness=Emissive Value of the Pixel on the monitor = 0% (black) -100% (full color value). Emissive means light behind. It is not "reflected" light value. For printing on BLACK or colored backgrounds HSB is the ONLY color space that can be used to get the correct underbase values (but that is an entirely different story for another time.)
So using this example. The Hue Angle starts at 0° (red) and moves clockwise back to 360° (Red). Primary colors and their compliments are located 60° apart. Red- 0°/360°, Yellow-60°, Green-120°, Cyan-180°, Blue-240°, Magenta-300°.
You can use the color picker in Photoshop to learn how to see and visualize any color as a number by selecting a color with the eye dropper and then looking at the HSB values in the Color Picker window. I have attached the HSB for Pantone 109 as an example.
We recognized to accurately color separate, you had to be able to "see" a color and mentally be able to convert it to a series of numbers the computer could map and calculate.
So, bottomline. HSB is the most addressible space. When you have an addressable space, you can make better color decisions as to how the separation will proceed. I don't know how Tom's program works or if it's based on selection and ranging or if it does indeed have the ability to map a pigment against the actual values in the original so it will be able to reproduce accurately. Anytime you move from one space to the next, there will be loss in the process. The more addressible the color space, the more things we can do to compensate for the loss.
As a printer, all of this should be in the background. I am, and always have been a 100% proponent of the math and science behind everything we do. That is my job, to make sure the foundation assumptions are consistent with the higher laws of mechanics, physics, chemistry, math, etc. I am an engineer by nature and this is why I get excited when I see someone else figuring this all out.
You might ask why this has been kept "secret" for all these years. In reality it is no secret at all. I have never been the kind of marketer who sells his products base on a sales pitch or a bunch of marketing mumbo jumbo that can't be explained.
All I know is that it works better than anything else
and if you are really, really serious about color separation and getting great color you need to know how to "see" color as numbers and understand where you are going with it.
If we do our job right, each of you should be able to get great results without having to know too much about how you get there. For those who are really serious, you can download The Top Ten Quick Start Guide to Printing Halftones at www.halftonesecrets.com (http://www.halftonesecrets.com). It's free. And for the REALLY serious, you can visit www.HalftoneMastery.com (http://www.HalftoneMastery.com) for more info.
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So the industry has not been "ignorant" to HSB color space for Ever interesting.
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Inkman, you're probably mistaking "passion" for hostility.
Sometimes it's not what is typed, but the tone we give it when we read it.
I for one am extremely interested in the info and videos in his posts. I sure as hell don't know how I'll fit learning process/"sim process" into my workload, but I'm sure gonna try. AA, you doing any seminars up in Western Canada anytime soon? :P ;D
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Inkman, you're probably mistaking "passion" for hostility.
Sometimes it's not what is typed, but the tone we give it when we read it.
I for one am extremely interested in the info and videos in his posts. I sure as hell don't know how I'll fit learning process/"sim process" into my workload, but I'm sure gonna try. AA, you doing any seminars up in Western Canada anytime soon? :P ;D
No plans for that at this time but we do have a bun in the oven so to say... www.openscreenprinting.com (http://www.openscreenprinting.com) we just remodeled a shop with an 8 color manual and all the trimmings. On that site we will produce free screen printing videos and cover the entire process from art/design to separating to the printing press. All of which should get started in the next 2 to 3 weeks.
We are planning on comparing many things in the interest of getting every shop up to speed at the highest level possible given the equipment they have. It is possible to do very high end looking prints with just a few colors and it is possible to do amazing prints with more colors.
Lets hope it all comes together effectively on the screen printing training side
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3 might be a minimum but you could pull off a fairly decent print with two color in HSB because the hue could be toned down or dialed in with brightness.
Hey, I'm just a part time printer using one of the not-so-expensive seps. Yea, I tweaked the two channels, but would this be acceptable to the "average" customer (not wanting to pay the price for high end seps)? And this was quick using the original posted (low res) image. Top was screen shot of the post above for reference. Bottom is 3 color on black substrate. Would probably be a bit closer with a more redish brown. I do realize this is marginal at best, but was curious how close could come with the fewest colors. By the way, it looks better on my monitor, lol.
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Hey, I'm just a part time printer using one of the not-so-expensive seps. Yea, I tweaked the two channels, but would this be acceptable to the "average" customer (not wanting to pay the price for high end seps)? And this was quick using the original posted (low res) image. Top was screen shot of the post above for reference. Bottom is 3 color on black substrate. Would probably be a bit closer with a more redish brown. I do realize this is marginal at best, but was curious how close could come with the fewest colors. By the way, it looks better on my monitor, lol.
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Thanks for the sharing that screenexpress! I was thinking along the same lines.
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My question is why do you have to seem so hostile about this topic and constantly call out ignorance which in my opinion disrespects a lot of people on this site that are professional photoshop seperators who know how to use their software and understand separating for screen printing just as well if not better than you do. There is folks here that have stepped and also printed award winning shirts and I have one of them award winning shirts hanging in my office, no push button sep software or plugin could come close to creating the seps that the artist did for that shirt. The difference between the software no matter the software and a human is that the human understands how ink works on shirts, understands how ink works on bases, understands how ink works through different mesh counts and understands how inks play together in different print orders. Software cannot do that it only knows one thing and thatis how to do what it is told to do on screen.
Not saying your technique cannot do a decent out of the box job, but I would love to see it used in comparison to a human seperator with a non cherry picked graphic.
I would absolutely love to do comparisons and we will be doing some in the very near future. Yes I may seem hostile at times but I am also well aware of the fact that allot of false information is making the rounds even now. And the false information costs small businesses money and clients.
Case in piont..
Guy with a multi-color print takes the art to an Adobe Shop the Adobe Shop says he needs 12 colors and it will cost XXX$ the guy goes down to the street to an AA follower with a small shop using CorelDRAW. AA follower takes the art apart in HSB then tells the client he can do it for X$ with 4 colors. The guy with Corel gets the four figure order and the client. End of story.
If you do not understand color and the guy down the street does he may very well take your clients and money away.. how do I know that. I hear about it all the time now.
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HSB seps are possible in Photoshop. Here's a tute from Youtube posted by somebody here before:
Manual HSB Color Separation in Adobe Photoshop for Screenprinting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4yKHHODimg#ws)
Maybe convoluted at first, but once the basic moves are made into actions, it's a piece of cake.
Art made in Photoshop is best sepped in Photoshop. How are you going to isolate and airbrush an area in a vector program? Plus, yeah... Draw isn't available for Macs and didn't run well in that environment when it was.
This is a great discussion, but it smells to me like a backdoor sales post for your software. :o
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HSB seps are possible in Photoshop. Here's a tute from Youtube posted by somebody here before:
Manual HSB Color Separation in Adobe Photoshop for Screenprinting ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4yKHHODimg#ws[/url])
Maybe convoluted at first, but once the basic moves are made into actions, it's a piece of cake.
Art made in Photoshop is best sepped in Photoshop. How are you going to isolate and airbrush an area in a vector program? Plus, yeah... Draw isn't available for Macs and didn't run well in that environment when it was.
This is a great discussion, but it smells to me like a backdoor sales post for your software. :o
Thanks for the post but honestly I am not selling anything but awareness of HSB and as you said yourself it is a piece of cake. Which is what I have been trying to point out.
Art in PhotoShop is best sepped in PhotoShop? That is an opinion...
Isolate an airbrush in a vector program? I suppose you are referring to CorelDRAW is CorelDRAW just a vector program?
Concerning the MAC are you somehow limited to only being able to work with a MAC?
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The whole process does seem to be easier in Corel by what I have seen in the video, but that might just be due to my limited knowledge of Photoshop which by the way is a software I dread to use. I`m kind of an Illustrator person but since we have as well a Windows PC now I might get a copy of Corel Draw. By the way I do like the opentshirts soft. Real nice.
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My question is why do you have to seem so hostile about this topic and constantly call out ignorance which in my opinion disrespects a lot of people on this site that are professional photoshop seperators who know how to use their software and understand separating for screen printing just as well if not better than you do. There is folks here that have stepped and also printed award winning shirts and I have one of them award winning shirts hanging in my office, no push button sep software or plugin could come close to creating the seps that the artist did for that shirt. The difference between the software no matter the software and a human is that the human understands how ink works on shirts, understands how ink works on bases, understands how ink works through different mesh counts and understands how inks play together in different print orders. Software cannot do that it only knows one thing and thatis how to do what it is told to do on screen.
Not saying your technique cannot do a decent out of the box job, but I would love to see it used in comparison to a human seperator with a non cherry picked graphic.
I would absolutely love to do comparisons and we will be doing some in the very near future. Yes I may seem hostile at times but I am also well aware of the fact that allot of false information is making the rounds even now. And the false information costs small businesses money and clients.
Case in piont..
Guy with a multi-color print takes the art to an Adobe Shop the Adobe Shop says he needs 12 colors and it will cost XXX$ the guy goes down to the street to an AA follower with a small shop using CorelDRAW. AA follower takes the art apart in HSB then tells the client he can do it for X$ with 4 colors. The guy with Corel gets the four figure order and the client. End of story.
If you do not understand color and the guy down the street does he may very well take your clients and money away.. how do I know that. I hear about it all the time now.
The part where you wrote "Adobe Shop the Adobe Shop says he needs 12 colors" is exactly why a human is better than any program no matter the color space they sep in. Just because Adobe says 12 colors does not mean someone like Dan could whittle it down to something much less because he has the knowledge and understanding to do it.
I truly think your HSB sepping is fascinating obviously there is something to it.
What i cant swallow is that Dan is ignorant or any other big time professional seperation artist, Dan and many others have stayed out of these posts but I bet they know exactly what HSB is and how it works which makes me think as good as HSB is there is probably also draw backs.
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I love this stuff. Its like MAC vs PC all over again. I personally think that however "you" can get from point A to point Z is all that really matters. Iam a corel user and have just about all of AAs stuff. I've dabbled in it but haven't really had any time to seriously put into it. The one thing that I want to see, which I haven't seen yet, is someone put out a shirt with a graphic that has been seperated with corel. The videos look like its a winner for a lot of us hear that are corel based. Personally I would do dome of the simpler stuff in corel but anything really high end I would probably still leave to the professionals as I don't think, like most of us that are running a full shop, have the time to go to press and realize we need to do somehting different. I think its probably a pipe dream to see identical art sepped by Dan and AA and then have someone here actually print it and compare the 2 and see what the results are. That would be intriguing to see possibly 1 design with say 7-8 colors and one that can be done in 3-4 colors. Wish I had the knowledge to chime in with real world facts, but I still find the subject very interesting and everyones thoughts on it.
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I don't see it as Mac vs. PC really, just Corel vs. Adobe, and not even really a fight; just 2 sets of tools with some slight differences. I've been getting files since the late 80's. I can count on one hand the amount of Corel Draw files I receive. Essentially, it's zero. I much prefer working in the Mac environment, even though I can work on a PC. I learned Freehand and Illustrator in the beginning (I'm leaving out Cricket Draw and Laseroptics) and when I tried to look at Corel Draw (6.0 for Mac) I just didn't like it at all, pretty much the same with Canvas. To me, they were totally unintuitive. Now, the new program Tom has developed for CD is indeed fascinating. I even bought Corel X6, to put it on my Mac (Fusion running XP). It's slower than anything, no time for that. I will eventually load it onto the PC in the office, but taking any time to learn it isn't even on a back burner, maybe next winter. Either way, keep it all coming, education is a good thing. Oh yeah, it does indeed smell like a sales pitch, but it's one I don't mind hearing... ;D
Steve
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Despite all of the irrelevant questions and accusations as to being lied to for years or (was it the wrong way to separate), in the end, the questions should be for printers,
"Will my time and my skill/knowledge of using X method be better than another method or better than sending it out? Am I going to best serve my customer, increase sales and win the loyalty of my customer with only using my time and my skill/knowledge of X methods?".
You asked, "why do separators charge "sooo much"? I first ask, "what is sooo much"? What is a great end result worth to your customer? What is the personal attention (to that specific art and customer worth?) Being someone who sells the printed shirt to the customer myself, I do know what it's worth.
Below is only one example of what a Pro does. It was a separation job sent to me. It was assigned to just separate the job. But for being a human with an understanding of this business, I want to provide a great looking print. I know I need to clean this up a bit. If I left this (as is), it doesn't look that great when printed to say the least. So I do what I choose to do to help out the printer and his/her customer. This is a typical scenario as to what a live person does better at handling your separation than does any auto sep program no matter what color isolation method or auto sep brand used.
For now, this is about all I have to say about this.
D
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Dan makes a good point... are we going to just sep the jobs we get as they come, or are we going to improve the image and design itself?
A true pro will do the latter. When I worked on staff in shops, I would often make suggestions as to how a design can be made better, since many files provided by clients are not exactly designed well. A pro will see things and make little tweaks that may not even get mentioned.
Regarding Photoshop vs Corel Draw... coming from a traditional painting and airbrushing background, masking and airbrushing and brush strokes made by hand are best done in Photoshop, not vectors. Drawing shapes with wireframes and filling them with gradients is not the same as blending pixels like wet paint on canvas. Not even close.
This isn't a Corel vs Adobe argument, or Mac vs PC, it's DIY vs professional. Yes, most people who own cars can change their own air filter... but to rebuild the engine, most people are better off hiring a professional... and paying the money a professional earns by knowing not just how to fix problems, but how to make the car run better.
I think this software is a good thing. It's probably a great tool for many shops to have in their toolbox. But no sep plug-in is ever going to be the end-all, do-everything, one-stop solution. Every job is different. You've made a good contribution to the print world here... but coming in and stating things like "urban legends" and everything has been a lie until you came along is well, Alex Jones-like. Or... maybe it reminds me of someone else. Someone who is closer to this industry. Anyone? ;)
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The art side is definitely something that separation techniques cannot do or being able to make adjustments to things that is on the human side before the separation process. Even working in HSB there are different ways to do things. Which is why I really liked the post from Mark which I quoted.. the most addressable color space and in my opinion once you understand it, it is the easiest to make analysis and separation decisions with. Being able to easily pull back brightness and look at hue opens the color up immediately then looking at the degrees of hue or color you are right way in a position to see what needs to be done to proceed with separations. The fact that Screen Printers use black and white ink and have many different colors of ink makes HSB the natural fit for the Industry.
I am really not trying to push plugins I am trying to open this up for the Industry which is why we have the Corel and PhotoShop videos which do not us the plugin. You wont see any other plugin providers showing the techniques for separation or breaking down the science behind the process. But if you are motivated on behalf of the Industry then I believe you want the Industry to understand these things clearly. So that the Industry can make informed decisions from an understanding that comes from real qualified information.
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No plans for that at this time but we do have a bun in the oven so to say... [url=http://www.openscreenprinting.com]www.openscreenprinting.com[/url] ([url]http://www.openscreenprinting.com[/url]) we just remodeled a shop with an 8 color manual and all the trimmings. On that site we will produce free screen printing videos and cover the entire process from art/design to separating to the printing press. All of which should get started in the next 2 to 3 weeks.
We are planning on comparing many things in the interest of getting every shop up to speed at the highest level possible given the equipment they have. It is possible to do very high end looking prints with just a few colors and it is possible to do amazing prints with more colors.
Lets hope it all comes together effectively on the screen printing training side
Tom I take it this is you and Scott's latest concoction? Scott did say he was hard at work on some vids and had something special brewing..
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No plans for that at this time but we do have a bun in the oven so to say... [url=http://www.openscreenprinting.com]www.openscreenprinting.com[/url] ([url]http://www.openscreenprinting.com[/url]) we just remodeled a shop with an 8 color manual and all the trimmings. On that site we will produce free screen printing videos and cover the entire process from art/design to separating to the printing press. All of which should get started in the next 2 to 3 weeks.
We are planning on comparing many things in the interest of getting every shop up to speed at the highest level possible given the equipment they have. It is possible to do very high end looking prints with just a few colors and it is possible to do amazing prints with more colors.
Lets hope it all comes together effectively on the screen printing training side
Tom I take it this is you and Scott's latest concoction? Scott did say he was hard at work on some vids and had something special brewing..
Scott is not in the mix on this one actually working with my partner on this he has a small shop and that is where we will be doing the video. The key here is going beyond screen capture stuff and into real video production. For the longest time it has been here is a screen printing start up kit good luck.. Nothing on the art side of any substance. So we are planning to bring it all together is on place art to print.
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The whole process does seem to be easier in Corel by what I have seen in the video, but that might just be due to my limited knowledge of Photoshop which by the way is a software I dread to use. I`m kind of an Illustrator person but since we have as well a Windows PC now I might get a copy of Corel Draw. By the way I do like the opentshirts soft. Real nice.
Before you go off and spend the money. Have you tried the HSB filter for photoshop. This filter can be downloaded from their website.
This is how you can use it.....
1. Duplicate the design.
2. Then go to the channels and use the HSB filter. Photoshop will give all these funny colours in RGB..... The B is what you want.
Select all and paste it in a new layer.
From here you can follow the instructions from the above youtube.
I find the above youtube method using HSB covers more range than color range.
Goodluck
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There is definitely a tidal wave of change coming to this Industry.. It will be earth shaking and massive. Artists will find themselves replaced by 3D and automated painting programs. Separators will be a thing of the past as color and technology kicks in.. Just look at where we were 20 years ago and look at where we are now. Like it or not if you are not cutting edge you will suffer extinction.
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I think the notion of separating in an HSB color space is incredibly valid.
advanced artiste- avoid the hooha and just make the dang plug in for PS too.
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There is definitely a tidal wave of change coming to this Industry.. It will be earth shaking and massive. Artists will find themselves replaced by 3D and automated painting programs. Separators will be a thing of the past as color and technology kicks in.. Just look at where we were 20 years ago and look at where we are now. Like it or not if you are not cutting edge you will suffer extinction.
I hear there's some new technology out there that will make screen printing itself obsolete. Something about an inkjet printer that prints directly on the shirt. Sell your presses while they still have value!
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I was thinking the other day that inkjet printing will replace screen printing...one day. It could be 200 years from now, I think screen printing will become more of a hobby type thing.
Never say never...look at how much digital has already replaced in our industry. I grew up using a stat camera.
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I was thinking the other day that inkjet printing will replace screen printing...one day. It could be 200 years from now, I think screen printing will become more of a hobby type thing.
Never say never...look at how much digital has already replaced in our industry. I grew up using a stat camera.
True, digital/inkjet has completely taken over large format flat stock printing. Not many screen print sign shops left, I'm sure.
But even if they can get a good white ink that doesn't dry up in the nozzles, they have a long way to go before they'll be able to push puff or high density through a micropiezo nozzle.
And the artists will still be around. We've survived photography, clip art, design template automation and computers themselves. We'll wake up to find ourselves living batteries for a robot empire before the artist is completely replaced by a machine. If I'm still doing art for screen printers in 20 years, just shoot me anyway. ;D
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I think the next real step with Digital vs Traditional is hybrids. Half screen printing half digital machines. Then you can have all the specialty inks still and run underbases for the digital inks. That I believe will be more of a reality before digital replaces screen printing completely.
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I think the next real step with Digital vs Traditional is hybrids. Half screen printing half digital machines. Then you can have all the specialty inks still and run underbases for the digital inks. That I believe will be more of a reality before digital replaces screen printing completely.
Our best sold product is hybrid transfer( digital+screen). sorry for hijacking thread, but I wasn't first :-)
Boris
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I think the next real step with Digital vs Traditional is hybrids. Half screen printing half digital machines. Then you can have all the specialty inks still and run underbases for the digital inks. That I believe will be more of a reality before digital replaces screen printing completely.
Our best sold product is hybrid transfer( digital+screen). sorry for hijacking thread, but I wasn't first :-)
Boris
I have a customer in Israel that has a DTG (one press) already in a head and prints traditional colors for special effect inks. Slower prod runs per hours, but somehow, they do it and make it worth the while.
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I think the next real step with Digital vs Traditional is hybrids. Half screen printing half digital machines. Then you can have all the specialty inks still and run underbases for the digital inks. That I believe will be more of a reality before digital replaces screen printing completely.
that is closer than you might think and definitely how things will go imho.
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A guy by me has one. DTG in the head. Screen print UB and print over the top. Pretty cool. Have not seen it but I have heard about it. The guy does not want the volume business. Likes the short runs it allows. Still a slow process as far as regular printing.
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So while I sit here and type on one of the shop's 10" tablets (these were not available 20 years ago) I also think that while yes there are many ways to sep something out not all shops even know how to print wow or do a discharge underbase yet alone reprint it again six months later and get the exact, same print. Yes, seps are extremely important, just as reclaiming and proper dryer tempature. And also client hand holding. And when to say no. One of the many, many variables in our profession. I am excited for what the next 20 years will bring. I just think that there will always be many ways to print the same design. And this is a great thread for sure but I have noticed many a screen printing business owner tends to lean sticking to what they have done for years, even if it is not effecient as a new proven method. Even loosing a bit of money tends not to fade that type of owner. It usually takes a huge loss and or going out of business but by then it is too late. I hope the process of doing seps continues to evolve and I look forward to the future. And some of us might not. So once again time will tell and some will thrive and some will die. It is Darwinism for the apparel screen printing world
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I think the next real step with Digital vs Traditional is hybrids. Half screen printing half digital machines. Then you can have all the specialty inks still and run underbases for the digital inks. That I believe will be more of a reality before digital replaces screen printing completely.
that is closer than you might think and definitely how things will go imho.
Yeah, seen one in action. Cool, the future for sure but not tomorrow. I want one but not for mass production
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I hope the process of doing seps continues to evolve and I look forward to the future. And some of us might not.
I know first hand that every separator that does this for a living will not be phased by a sep program that all of a sudden does great seps all by itself. Pro separators get to a point of experience in separations (not by way of focusing on separations) but by way of combining multiples skills and learning seps as a result of a need. If you (one man shop) printers focused on learning separations, your business would slowly fail due to a lack of attention (on your business).
An Auto sep program can only take you so far but would be a good choice as it can get you a step further. Anyone who says they have a program that (all you do is push a few buttons and in 3 minutes you have a great separation) is just selling snake oil. The newest one out as well as the one sold 10 years ago, all still require some skill afterwords for editing and all provide (random) results). IN other words, not every auto sep outcome) will be an expectable match to the original art. THen you need to go back and make the auto thing dance a little to get a better result...and add in your own skills/knowledge about printing to get better results.
I do not doubt that a specific color model will be better than others. It's just not (THE ONLY) way.
A Sep business that is of a ( basic production level) service such as (your average clip art designs, type setting and jpg conversion to vector businesses that one day also added in a service of providing auto seps as an additional service...is going to be effected by (all of his/hr customers now buying a (answer to all) auto sep program. Whatever Co brand that might be one day. They will need to loose that part of the business and go back to focusing on clip art and jpg conversion but even they would be doing the same thing as shown below.
A pro separators is always multi skilled. It just comes with the territory. If you look at any separator that is very good, and look at their background. They can do extremely well (in many areas) of demand in our industry. They can decide to quite a full time job that was for only doing separations...and switch into a design position. They are good designers, good illustrators, good printers, good at most everything pertaining to what a shop might need and can often start up their own printing business (if they chose). So it's not like if one day an auto sep program would come into the business that eliminated the need for outsourcing separations and did seps in 2 minutes, that we "pro's would go cry in corner. We would just move into doing something else and occasionally (push a button) for seps. More than likely, we would be the ones pushing that button in a shop.
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I would love to read this thread again 5 or 10 years down the road.
This is what is happening in Indonesia.
A lot of extremely small garment shops owned by artist are buying modified Epson printers to print their art on tees. They will only print about 10 to 20 tees and call it limited edition.
They can watch something on the news or read something in the newspaper and bang, a new design for the day.
Technology won't replace artist or production people. They just weed out the mediocre ones.
Good luck for the future.
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Technology won't replace artist or production people. They just weed out the mediocre ones.
Good luck for the future.
When I went to design school, we learned paste-up, which was the entry-level skill required in graphics. Right after I graduated, paste-up was replaced by desktop publishing. The new technology increased the level of mediocrity, allowing people with good design skills but not-so-good technical skills to do these jobs. You no longer had to know how to draw to be a graphic artist.
Evolution does not favor the strong or smart, but the ones most able to adapt.
It took a while, but in 1999, I finally bought my first computer and taught myself Photoshop. Better late than never! LoL.
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I hope the process of doing seps continues to evolve and I look forward to the future. And some of us might not.
I know first hand that every separator that does this for a living will not be phased by a sep program that all of a sudden does great seps all by itself. Pro separators get to a point of experience in separations (not by way of focusing on separations) but by way of combining multiples skills and learning seps as a result of a need. If you (one man shop) printers focused on learning separations, your business would slowly fail due to a lack of attention (on your business).
An Auto sep program can only take you so far but would be a good choice as it can get you a step further. Anyone who says they have a program that (all you do is push a few buttons and in 3 minutes you have a great separation) is just selling snake oil. The newest one out as well as the one sold 10 years ago, all still require some skill afterwords for editing and all provide (random) results). IN other words, not every auto sep outcome) will be an expectable match to the original art. THen you need to go back and make the auto thing dance a little to get a better result...and add in your own skills/knowledge about printing to get better results.
I do not doubt that a specific color model will be better than others. It's just not (THE ONLY) way.
A Sep business that is of a ( basic production level) service such as (your average clip art designs, type setting and jpg conversion to vector businesses that one day also added in a service of providing auto seps as an additional service...is going to be effected by (all of his/hr customers now buying a (answer to all) auto sep program. Whatever Co brand that might be one day. They will need to loose that part of the business and go back to focusing on clip art and jpg conversion but even they would be doing the same thing as shown below.
A pro separators is always multi skilled. It just comes with the territory. If you look at any separator that is very good, and look at their background. They can do extremely well (in many areas) of demand in our industry. They can decide to quite a full time job that was for only doing separations...and switch into a design position. They are good designers, good illustrators, good printers, good at most everything pertaining to what a shop might need and can often start up their own printing business (if they chose). So it's not like if one day an auto sep program would come into the business that eliminated the need for outsourcing separations and did seps in 2 minutes, that we "pro's would go cry in corner. We would just move into doing something else and occasionally (push a button) for seps. More than likely, we would be the ones pushing that button in a shop.
Dragnet - Joe Friday Gets "ROUGH" With Suspect - Classic! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrpiby-piB4#)
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Ha. That leaves me to ask, what guy are you? The cop or the criminal?
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If you (one man shop) printers focused on learning separations, your business would slowly fail due to a lack of attention (on your business).
Lets start here....
This is absolutely very very bad advice.. Separations are a piece of cake in CorelDRAW with the Wide Gamut CMYK color model. Separation can be very difficult in PhotoShop because of color space issues. Period!
The difficulties in separations and understanding color do exist in PhotoShop those issues are not encountered with CorelDRAW.
These are facts not opinions.
Reality knocking....
If you the one man shop understand color and HSB in CorelDRAW you might just find yourself taking large dollar orders from big shops with Adobe art departments. As an educated informed CorelDRAW user.
Case in point...
Ryan a small CorelDRAW shop has a potential client stop by the shop with a design that needed a Sim Process style separation. Ryan loads image into draw takes it apart with HSB and quotes the client 4 colors and X$$$. Ryan trained by me understands color. Turns out the guy had just been down the street with the PhotoShop guys and they had quoted 12 colors for $XXXXXXXXX. Ryan gets the 4 digits order and the client.
So my advice is this.. Learn color and eat your competition for breakfast even if you are one man shop. Period!
Also please stop complicating the rest of the Industry with the difficulties you have in PhotoShop.
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Time for a music break...
Godsmack - Cryin' Like A Bitch!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eXIOK2vOhM#ws)
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Like I said. I used to simply think you were an angry person. Now, I come to realize you just don't know what you don't know and I feel your issues may lay a little deeper. I hope for the best for you and your business.
I hope your product is as fantastic as your struggle to make everyone believe it is.
You sell Corel and much of the screen print business is Corel. You feel a need to defend Corel. Other people sell Corel and love Corel but you don't see them bashing other programs, users and methods.
We do not get to see them get angry, spiteful, hateful and disrespectful. The truth is, your product is just another auto sep program. Simple as that. Just another. You should try marketing it on its merits and stop adding in your person. Your making your product unattactive.
Please remember where you are and be a decent business person. Remember to not crap in my living room.
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Case in point...
Ryan a small CorelDRAW shop has a potential client stop by the shop with a design that needed a Sim Process style separation. Ryan loads image into draw takes it apart with HSB and quotes the client 4 colors and X$$$. Ryan trained by me understands color. Turns out the guy had just been down the street with the PhotoShop guys and they had quoted 12 colors for $XXXXXXXXX. Ryan gets the 4 digits order and the client.
Does this mean free training coming my way ;D
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I agree with Dan, I love Corel, it's a great program that is easily modified into what I need it to be. Macros make workflow much faster and easier.
These are all tools that allow us to finish a task/complete a job, that's it, they are nothing more. I had a friend that built an amazing V-8 MGB with tools from K-mart(before Craftsman). He didn't have anything that fancy, he used the tools he had and turned out a really cool car.
That being said, Simple Seps Raster is a product I own. Between QuickSeps, Easy Art and Simple Seps Raster, my hands down favorite is Simple Seps Raster. I do less fidgeting with seps from that program than any other. I've printed a few designs from it and they worked perfect the first time. The really tough stuff still goes to dan...heck I sent dan a vector file last week to sep...I just couldn't figure out how to print it. It was a crazy design and mas damn near simulated process in vector.
Oh, and if I use Dan to complete my tasks for me, does that make him a tool? ;)
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Get more bee's with honey. I think the approach if off here for sure.
I will continue to use Dan when I need some seps that I don't trust myself on. Which has only been 2 times but I was happy both times.
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I would love to see a plug in sep the blood moon job Dan did for Pierre and match. Uh never mind thats like saying astronauts are not needed because they can train monkeys to fly the space shuttle.
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I've been enjoying this discussion immensely; if only I could actually load Corel Draw onto my PC in the office, I might actually be able to look more closely, but as my request for help yesterday explained, I simply can't get it done, it won't work, no matter who tries to help. Why won't Corel simply port to Mac, what's the BFD? (can you tell I'm averse to PC's?)
Steve
Mike, yes, a plug-in that will mix halftones and dither (index) would be cool. I'd like to be fair to Tom though, as he has invested a ton of time and energy coming up with something meant to help us, and like a singer at an audition, is being cut off halfway through the song and told "Thanks, we'll be in touch."
Even though my PC and Corel are pissing me off to no end, I still would like to give it a shot. Tom, relax, things take time, and time moves pretty fast.
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Don't get me wrong Steve I think his software for sepping is pretty awesome. Its his gorilla marketing that sucks.
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Yeah, I gotta chime in here as well.
I generally love Tom's participation here since I use CorelDRAW, and he has had a lot to contribute to the Corel world.
It's pretty obvious that beyond "curiosity" this thread is part of a thinly veiled sales campaign, but threre has been just enough general separation information that I let it stand and stay in this section.
However, like the regular scheduled cesspool of our national, state, and local elections, we see that most candidates just won't take the effort to stand on their own merits, and resort to attacks and negative campaigns.
Unfortunately, I see this in this particular "campaign" as well.
Now, I am not privy to detailed history of possible bad blood, nor Tom's marketing background or sales presentation techniques in the past, but I truly wish that his presentation could focus more on why one should consider his products rather than why folks should avoid others.
Negative campaigning or ads are often a fine line, and hard to define sometimes, but we all pretty much know the difference when we see it.
So Tom, tell us what you got, make your presentation, maybe offer a discount to TSB members, and please stick around to post about Corel techniques and problems in general.
You are a true asset, and I know that your products can stand on their own qualities.
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Yeah, I gotta chime in here as well.
I generally love Tom's participation here since I use CorelDRAW, and he has had a lot to contribute to the Corel world.
It's pretty obvious that beyond "curiosity" this thread is part of a thinly veiled sales campaign, but threre has been just enough general separation information that I let it stand and stay in this section.
However, like the regular scheduled cesspool of our national, state, and local elections, we see that most candidates just won't take the effort to stand on their own merits, and resort to attacks and negative campaigns.
Unfortunately, I see this in this particular "campaign" as well.
Now, I am not privy to detailed history of possible bad blood, nor Tom's marketing background or sales presentation techniques in the past, but I truly wish that his presentation could focus more on why one should consider his products rather than why folks should avoid others.
Negative campaigning or ads are often a fine line, and hard to define sometimes, but we all pretty much know the difference when we see it.
So Tom, tell us what you got, make your presentation, maybe offer a discount to TSB members, and please stick around to post about Corel techniques and problems in general.
You are a true asset, and I know that your products can stand on their own qualities.
This....
Its his gorilla marketing that sucks.
Exactly, a board founded on getting away from a that exact type of thing, he thinks it will work here?
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Let me share a few things here....
A little background first.
Last fall myself and Jeff my associate where looking at color and Jeff brought me into some understand about all this. I said Jeff we might be able to do this in CorelDRAW and we started digging around in DRAW and color. First thing Jeff is doubtful that DRAW can separate but starts looking at it. Within a few days BAM the whole thing starts to open up. Both of us were in complete shock as we realized that according to the PS pro crowd you cannot do this in CorelDRAW but there we were easier and faster with better results.
So I try to take this information public...
I end up with the other plugin guy trolling my youtube channel and hurling insults at me and CorelDRAW even to the point where his fake t-shirtforums account get discovered and banned. I receive regular emails with comments like "only a fag would use CorelDRAW" relating the separation training video. I have been referred to as a creep, dog squeeze and cat piss in public social environments relating to all this and the list goes on.
All this after realizing we could have been doing this 16 years ago in DRAW if we had NOT been listening to the opinions of these so called gurus that in reality had little or no idea about what they were even talking about.
Now we have a circumstance in this industry where a few have come to believe that they have some special powers relating to separations and color in PhotoShop. Typically these are the same folks that told us for years this is can only be done in PhotoShop. In reality the only reason it could only be done in PhotoShop is because it was being done the wrong way.
Dealing with Urban Legends as I call them.. I have found to be very difficult and will get you into some controversial situations for sure.
But soon this will all be part of the past as we are working on the training series and videos that will finally put all this controversy to bed once and for all. And the way color and color separations are dealt with in this industry will be settled into easy to understand standards and methods that will be approachable by anyone at any level. Because it really is easy if it is approached correctly.
Tom, I don't approve of "other plug-in guys" attacking you on other forums or your Youtube channel. It ain't gonna happen here, nor is your retaliation. This is TSB, and we just don't play that way here.
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(http://tucsoncitizen.com/baja-democrats/files/2012/11/end-is-near.jpg)
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([url]http://tucsoncitizen.com/baja-democrats/files/2012/11/end-is-near.jpg[/url])
You must be tapped into my computer, LOL!
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The only controvery I see really is the one you have created. Using statements like ignorant, being lied to and so on is what is creating the buzz you want even tho it is negative. I do not recall any photoshop pro ever saying Corel cannot do something and you know why? Because none of those guys use Corel ha! My question is why do you place all this blame on photoshop users and plug -in makers? Why is it their fault that Corel has never been seen as a viable color separator? Its not their fault for using the software they either chose to use or were trained in. Its not their fault for using a software that is simply unbeatable when it comes to a lot of other things that has nothing to do with screen printing.
Maybe Corel should receive some of your wrath for not promoting their ability to separate as equal as Photoshop.
As once said already you would be better off using the honey instead of the vinegar.
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Let me share a few things here....
A little background first.
Last fall myself and Jeff my associate where looking at color and Jeff brought me into some understand about all this. I said Jeff we might be able to do this in CorelDRAW and we started digging around in DRAW and color. First thing Jeff is doubtful that DRAW can separate but starts looking at it. Within a few days BAM the whole thing starts to open up. Both of us were in complete shock as we realized that according to the PS pro crowd you cannot do this in CorelDRAW but there we were easier and faster with better results.
So I try to take this information public...
I end up with the other plugin guy trolling my youtube channel and hurling insults at me and CorelDRAW even to the point where his fake t-shirtforums account get discovered and banned. I receive regular emails with comments like "only a fag would use CorelDRAW" relating the separation training video. I have been referred to as a creep, dog squeeze and cat piss in public social environments relating to all this and the list goes on.
For example...
All this after realizing we could have been doing this 16 years ago in DRAW if we had NOT been listening to the opinions of these so called gurus that in reality had little or no idea about what they were even talking about.
Now we have a circumstance in this industry where a few have come to believe that they have some special powers relating to separations and color in PhotoShop. Typically these are the same folks that told us for years this is can only be done in PhotoShop. In reality the only reason it could only be done in PhotoShop is because it was being done the wrong way.
Dealing with Urban Legends as I call them.. I have found to be very difficult and will get you into some controversial situations for sure.
But soon this will all be part of the past as we are working on the training series and videos that will finally put all this controversy to bed once and for all. And the way color and color separations are dealt with in this industry will be settled into easy to understand standards and methods that will be approachable by anyone at any level. Because it really is easy if it is approached correctly.
So you come here with a chip on your shoulder over something that happened on Youtube and another forum? Do I have that correct?
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So you come here with a chip on your shoulder over something that happened on Youtube and another forum? Do I have that correct?
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I would not say that but perhaps I am little touchy after all the attacks over something that should not be an issue. And all the guerrilla marketing ideas they do not exist either. If you watch my free youtube videos you can do these separations manually all the information is there. We are working on a complete step by step outlined free series that will really break this down into childs play. Yes plugins are nice but you have to understand what is happening behind the scenes to really leverage color in your business. You absolutely must understand color as it relates to your shop and work. What is really possible with just 3 colors? What is possible with color blends? How do you look at color based on your equipment? Working with HSB and understanding the previous questions and other factors you enter into a whole new world of potential relating to screen printing, your business and success.
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So you come here with a chip on your shoulder over something that happened on Youtube and another forum? Do I have that correct?
I would not say that but perhaps I am little touchy after all the attacks over something that should not be an issue. And all the guerrilla marketing ideas they do not exist either. If you watch my free youtube videos you can do these separations manually all the information is there. We working on a complete step by step outlined free series that will really break this down to childs play. Yes plugins are nice but you have understand what is happening behind the scenes to really leverage color in your business. You absolutely must understand color as it relates to you shop and work. What is really possible with just 3 colors? What is possible with color blends? How do you look at color based on your equipment? Working with HSB and understanding the previous questions and other factors you enter into a whole new world of potential relating to screen printing.
[/quote]
I can only judge your actions here. I don't really care what attacks you are seeing from other people of other forums and other sites like youtube. They are not this site. You need to change your tone here......
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All this after realizing we could have been doing this 16 years ago in DRAW if we had NOT been listening to the opinions of these so called gurus that in reality had little or no idea about what they were even talking about.
1st and foremost from this post, we are reading that you yourself (designing and separating) from Corel all of these years, I would imagine you to be well into the corel expert/guru) status. No argument. We don't even argue that your "find" of using HSB in Corel is a great thing. We (me) argue your attitude thus far. I read you say that someone bashed you first. So? How often does that happen to each of us in life? Don't let that diminish your profile. For some more than often for most, occasionally. Someone is not going to like you or your product for whacked out reasons at times. It's just part of doing something.
Here (as only one example) is where you come off bashing others with blanket statements like.. if we had NOT been listening to the opinions of these so called gurus. What Guru's? Who? You haven't heard me say "You can only do that in Photoshop? It's not even about how you offend me with lumping me in with your trouble people, but I do get annoyed with it. It's more about the blanket statements of (The Wrong way" It's just ridiculous to say that. Saying things liek that diminish your appearance of knowledge of our industry and business as if you don't really know the industry and our business.
Some shops use all three programs. Corel, Illy and Photoshop. If some "experts" have ever said that "you can only do this in Photshop, That doesn't make them less of a Photoshop expert. That just says (they didn't know at the time) that you could do anything like what your doing in Corel. Point being, YOU, a Corel expert/guru didn't know you could do that in Corel back some time ago yet here you are on multiple forums bashing and lumping all photshop users and all other sep programs as "attacking Corel and indicating that WE have all said Corel Draw can't do well enough.
So...here we are, watching you make these unattractive and at times offensive claims. It sad to see such a good thing be promoted in the way you are (or have been thus far). I'd like to be on your side and lift you up with support. I currently can't support "you" with the manor that you behave. I can't place myself next to that. Not that you need "me" of course, but wouldn't it be smooth sailing for you if more people were on your side?
I for one, would purchase it and use it...if it enabled me to do seps faster and/or better. Wouldn't a Pro separator (being on your side) be more of a benefit to aid in marketing than bashing them? A Pro could lean/understand and run with such a thing a lot easier than a printer that has 40 other things to focus on as well.
With that said, This would not eliminate the need for freelance separators. It may lower cost for my customers since I would be able to charge much less such as $25.00 per job rather than $10-$30.00 per color. Pro separators may be able to make up a small portion of your customer base.
Hey, theres a marketing idea. Pro separators as friends rather than your enemy.
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All the controversy over such a simple process. This is just one of many ways to sep manually is DRAW. But as I said the training is coming and once that is completed then there just wont be anymore controversy.
! Private video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKQ96JvKkZM&feature=youtu.be#)
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All the controversy over such a simple process. This is just one of many ways to sep manually is DRAW. But as I said the training is coming and once that is completed then there just wont be anymore controversy.
! Private video ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKQ96JvKkZM&feature=youtu.be#[/url])
As long as you don't create any, I wouldn't think there would be any?
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There's no controversy over the process... only the sales tactic. :P
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Hey, theres a marketing idea. Pro separators as friends rather than your enemy.
Jeff is the best Pro Separator on this planet I would stake my reputation in the industry on that. Guess what?.. He used to use PhotoShop not anymore.
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Thats nice. You have a friend in Jeff. He seems like a very nice person.
But...you're avoiding the question. Wouldn't you like to have other "pro separators on your side? Treat people nicely and along with your good products, you have no one against you. Only people who support you. C'mon you big tiger. Let Danny take that splinter out of your paw. I know you've been hurt.
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Thats nice. You have a friend in Jeff. He seems like a very nice person.
But...you're avoiding the question. Wouldn't you like to have other "pro separators on your side? Treat people nicely and along with your good products, you have no one against you. Only people who support you. C'mon you big tiger. Let Danny take that splinter out of your paw. I know you've been hurt.
Last week you were calling me a creep, dog squeeze and cat piss and all I asked for was to post the original image. You did not help the tiger get the splinter of his paw you pulled him tail!
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Thats nice. You have a friend in Jeff. He seems like a very nice person.
But...you're avoiding the question. Wouldn't you like to have other "pro separators on your side? Treat people nicely and along with your good products, you have no one against you. Only people who support you. C'mon you big tiger. Let Danny take that splinter out of your paw. I know you've been hurt.
Last week you were calling me a creep, dog squeeze and cat piss and all I asked for was to post the original image. You did not help the tiger get the splinter of his paw you pulled him tail!
Haha. No, you got it all wrong. I didn't call you those things. I said everything you were saying about "other people and their methods was creepy, dog squeeze and ....I don't remember the cat piss. LOL. You're not a bad person per say, but sometimes you do bad things. ::)
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Dude you tore me a complete new #@()$( in that thread for no reason...
I really do not even want to read this again... but here you go.
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/show-your-stuff-screen-printing-print-job-examples/t213335-2.html (http://www.t-shirtforums.com/show-your-stuff-screen-printing-print-job-examples/t213335-2.html)
And why are you so nervous about posting originals anyway?
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Geez guys, I know you have a history, here is the deal...
Tom, your product is great. Show off it's benefits without slamming Adobe. Show how it's another tool in the arsenal and how it can save printers time and money. I would rather hear those things than hear somebody saying that what I have been doing my whole life is wrong. People don't like that sort of thing.
Dan, get to work on my order... ;)
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Honestly.. what I was doing my whole life until last year was DEAD WRONG! Completely off the mark in my understanding of color and color separations I was an ignorant fool. I would look at design and try to avoid raster and designing that would lead to raster separations or sim process...Now no file exists that I cannot sep in less than 10 minutes.
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Dude you tore me a complete new #@()$( in that thread for no reason...
I really do not even want to read this again... but here you go.
[url]http://www.t-shirtforums.com/show-your-stuff-screen-printing-print-job-examples/t213335-2.html[/url] ([url]http://www.t-shirtforums.com/show-your-stuff-screen-printing-print-job-examples/t213335-2.html[/url])
And why are you so nervous about posting originals anyway?
Why so nervous? Because of how you took a copy of Myseps video and did your voiceover to mislead people while belittling his techniques. If you did that to him, why would I submit something for you to compare? Do you still have that posted up? Maybe you took that one down for good reason.
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I never voiced over a myseos vid? Yes the myseps dude is clueless but I never did a voice over on him????
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Dude you tore me a complete new #@()$( in that thread for no reason...
I really do not even want to read this again... but here you go.
[url]http://www.t-shirtforums.com/show-your-stuff-screen-printing-print-job-examples/t213335-2.html[/url] ([url]http://www.t-shirtforums.com/show-your-stuff-screen-printing-print-job-examples/t213335-2.html[/url])
And why are you so nervous about posting originals anyway?
And really if you are afraid to post before and after you have no business touting yourself a pro separator... period!
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I never voiced over a myseos vid? Yes the myseps dude is clueless but I never did a voice over on him? ???
Maybe it's not called a "voice over" technically speaking. But that one where he's showing his process, step by step sped up...and you (your voice in the background) talking about how bad his process is and how much better it would be to do in SimpleSeps. It may not be a voice over, in technical terms, but it was a vid you created watching his vid,....with your voice commenting step by step.
Again, you belittle him with calling him clueless? How can you? he does good work. Simply because he doesn't use your product? Thats a no no. Maybe you don't realize how rude your actions are. Like Tourette syndrome er something.
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I really do not even want to read this again... but here you go.
[url]http://www.t-shirtforums.com/show-your-stuff-screen-printing-print-job-examples/t213335-2.html[/url] ([url]http://www.t-shirtforums.com/show-your-stuff-screen-printing-print-job-examples/t213335-2.html[/url])
And why are you so nervous about posting originals anyway?
And really if you are afraid to post before and after you have no business touting yourself a pro separator... period!
Pfft.
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lets post up DTD I will let my HSB users post for me..
http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php?topic=4618.0 (http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php?topic=4618.0)
Bring it...
lets compare DTD
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Hahha. pfft. ;D Never goona get me.
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Well Dan if you are ever up to it we are always ready and willing... But for sure HSB is well you will see soon,
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AA signing off another Urban Legend dispatched.... DTD scared to death to post his before and after and for good reason. We will see you on the other side in HSB 8)
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AA signing off another Urban Legend dispatched.... DTD scared to death to post his before and after and for good reason. We will see you on the other side in HSB 8)
Your colors are showing even worse, lots of olive branches extended to you yet you are becoming more of a douche. It's really sad to read someone attack someone else on their own forum.
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Tom why is it you've got a good thing going, and you keep trashing it for no reason. You have a maverick way of actually exposing your plugin to the public- buy it/ or do it manually. A kinda Kobe Bryant approach.. But instead of focusing on what you've got right and making world class, you're posting "Bring it.." to an argument. B... You're dumping on yourself.
Now this is a wasted post.. I could've been asking something constructive.
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This guy is a total douche bag.
I wouldn't use your product if it was free...
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Brandt, his products are great, that is the problem...but it really makes me not want to buy anymore or use the ones I've got. This sort of behavior reminds me of another person we know.
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Brandt, his products are great, that is the problem...but it really makes me not want to buy anymore or use the ones I've got. This sort of behavior reminds me of another person we know.
I have them too and after reading this I feel the same way. Great product for those of us that are corel users, but ehhhhh...leaves a bad taste in your mouth after all the rants. Show the benefits, why it might help some of us and move on. really, why the attacks?
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Brandt, his products are great, that is the problem...but it really makes me not want to buy anymore or use the ones I've got. This sort of behavior reminds me of another person we know.
Exactly. You can sell an amazing product for half price of the next guy but if you are a total prick about it and act like a child some portion of your potential customers will move on, if not all of them.
Dude needs to grow up....
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AA signing off another Urban Legend dispatched.... DTD scared to death to post his before and after and for good reason. We will see you on the other side in HSB 8)
If you werent acting like such a butthurt child, people might give a sh!t what you have to say, until then i doubt many people care what you say or what youre selling. as has already been stated, doing business with such an ass would not be worth the hassle. hope it all works out for you.
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I've been trying to give Tom some leeway, and understand the frustration he's feeling, though not the apparent anger, but the last few posts are indeed very richard-like, sort of like He Who Shall Not Be Named... despite the knowledge, the presentation leaves a bad taste. I hope he learns to relax, because before this, well, I hadn't expected this behavior from someone so well-spoken.
Steve
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Asperger's syndrome facts
Asperger disorder is characterized as one of the autism spectrum disorders.
People with Asperger's syndrome have normal to above-average intelligence but typically have difficulties with social interactions and often have pervasive, absorbing interests in special topics.
Abnormalities in the subtle use of language and interpretation of language are common with Asperger's syndrome, although language development (grammar, syntax, etc.) is normal.
The degree of severity of symptoms can vary among affected individuals.
Anxiety and frustration may contribute to disruptive behaviors or depression in people with Asperger's syndrome.
Successful treatment generally involves one or multiple social, behavioral, and/or educational interventions.
The personality and cognitive traits common to those with Asperger's syndrome are seen as beneficial by many, and many people with Asperger's syndrome believe it has helped advance their professional lives.
For me it is just too much time in the garage by myself :) I am sorry to see an interesting topic and a potentially useful product being subsumed by confrontational rants from the creator. Maybe AA should let someone else market his product.
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I hear ARE DUBBYA BEEEE is looking for work. Mustank kicked him to the curb already.
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Perhaps it roid rage. Looking pretty yoked in the avatar........ ::)
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Fck, this is good stuff. Where is the "eating pop corn" emoticon?
Damn, do I have to do everything myself?
(http://i.imgur.com/aVZgT.gif)
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wtf is this mess all about?! I was pretty excited to see Tom join here, I have every single product he sells, and use many of them every day. I bought x6 just to use simple seps raster, and it's awesome...but this is sickening to see this mess. Could be a super helpful person to the industry and then this? really? "dubbya" would be proud....
and by the way - how the hell do you guys have the time to bicker back and forth all day? Grow up, quit the bullshit and go sell something, it's like high school...pretty uncomfortable for the rest of us to watch too......except for donnie and his damn popcorn...
....no matter how good you think you are, there is always somebody better.....
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Give Homer the cigar! He wrapped up the whole thread in one post.
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pretty uncomfortable for the rest of us to watch too......except for donnie and his damn popcorn...
....no matter how good you think you are, there is always somebody better.....
Hey, I'm just trying to get the sticks out of everyone's collective asses.
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yeah...ummm...wow...really fellas??
I'm really really interested in learning how to do better seps....or at least I was.
I'm thinkin ignorance is bliss. Where'd dem pencils go?? :)
Land the plane please...this flight is pretty frekkin scary right now.
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no no Donnie, i was picking on you...and failed haha....
now back to derailing this thread...why couldn't it be two hot chicks, 3 rounds of some mud/oil/jello wrestling and THEN we can bust out the popcorn...instead we got....dudes...
for what it's worth, I just ran a job through simple seps raster and I am still amazed at how well it works, but I am also disappointed in Tom so I suppose that balances out haha....
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Slow down... lets look at the facts!
DTD Jumps in a thread in another forum and basically assaults me with a baseball bat in social media terms....
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/show-your-stuff-screen-printing-print-job-examples/t213335-2.html#post1258414 (http://www.t-shirtforums.com/show-your-stuff-screen-printing-print-job-examples/t213335-2.html#post1258414)
Lets look at this..
DTD... I've always had a burr under my saddle for those who like to kick people around to benefit themselves. I believe this program to be as good if not better than most sep programs. Not close to Coudreys, but still good.
DTD... Why nailing you down as some sort of creep? Because your actions of how you get where you are (are creepy).
DTD,, I still think Toms only true intent is to show his program doing something better looking than "a pro" only to sell more programs and piss on those he walks over getting there. That, I don't like at all. I can't help smelling dog squeeze. If it looks like it, smells like it and feels like it, it probably is.
DTD.. It's not "Tom or you that bother me. It's the actions more so from Tom. the "tactics" and the ( what I feel as being a mask of " education and "scientific Facts" that in the end are really Perseued to line his pockets.
Now in that thread I asked another separator not Dan to post his originals.. Dan spazes out with all these accusations and insults.
I think it is critical that you understand color and I do not aim all my training and videos at products. Actually I am painfully aware that people in places like Africa need to understand these things so I put up free videos without the plugins and explain these things so even if you can not afford a plugin you can learn it manually.
What does DTD say.. If you try to learn color separations as one man shop it will hurt your business.
Well enough of you here using my training know better...
If you are upset with me I can understand that but the guys like DTD don't reveal the secrets or science and things you need for your success. I take your success very seriously even if you cannot afford to pay for something.
I built www.opentshirts.org (http://www.opentshirts.org) free open source.. why?
Because if you are just getting started you will be able to compete online if you want to put the work into it. Like I did with open source when I was just getting started.
And we are just getting start with color whats coming up is really going to blow you away...
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Perhaps it roid rage. Looking pretty yoked in the avatar........ ::)
LOL I get accused of that all the time too. But it only takes 4 hours a week for like like years. Being almost 50 the last thing this old body could tolerate would be ROIDS.. dam the iron is proving itself difficult enough at this age.
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Amazingly enough I am successful without DTD. Maybe you should attempt to address something else or someone else too. A little fixated there AA? I would say, back away from the keyboard and take a deep breath, but I recognize that would be virtually impossible. Picking on someone is bad form.
Oh if only everyone would recognize your superior intellect and insight and instantly convert. Alas. It must be difficult.
I actually have a life away from this sh_t. So I find it amusing.
Keep it up! Make everyone think you are crazy. It only obscures the point you wish to make and discourages anyone from wishing to do business with you AA. We aren't all quite as close minded as you think. But no one wishes to be abused. Try and act like a professional. Big stretch? Maybe. However, if you have any interest in selling your plug in you might try to be a little less of a pain. It just doesn't happen instantly, you have to earn peoples trust rather than derision.
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I am successful without DTD too what is the problem?
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There is only a problem if you expect to be taken seriously. Post like an adult.
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So lets get this straight.. you say you are a success without DTD I agree with you and you ramble all this stuff and I am the child. You PS peeps never cease to amaze me.
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There is only a problem if you expect to be taken seriously. Post like an adult.
Oh and one more thing if you are child acting out of line and behaving badly an adult will spank you,
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Slow down... lets look at the facts!
DTD Jumps in a thread in another forum and basically assaults me with a baseball bat in social media terms....
[url]http://www.t-shirtforums.com/show-your-stuff-screen-printing-print-job-examples/t213335-2.html#post1258414[/url] ([url]http://www.t-shirtforums.com/show-your-stuff-screen-printing-print-job-examples/t213335-2.html#post1258414[/url])
Lets look at this..
DTD... I've always had a burr under my saddle for those who like to kick people around to benefit themselves. I believe this program to be as good if not better than most sep programs. Not close to Coudreys, but still good.
DTD... Why nailing you down as some sort of creep? Because your actions of how you get where you are (are creepy).
DTD,, I still think Toms only true intent is to show his program doing something better looking than "a pro" only to sell more programs and piss on those he walks over getting there. That, I don't like at all. I can't help smelling dog squeeze. If it looks like it, smells like it and feels like it, it probably is.
DTD.. It's not "Tom or you that bother me. It's the actions more so from Tom. the "tactics" and the ( what I feel as being a mask of " education and "scientific Facts" that in the end are really Perseued to line his pockets.
Now in that thread I asked another separator not Dan to post his originals.. Dan spazes out with all these accusations and insults.
I think it is critical that you understand color and I do not aim all my training and videos at products. Actually I am painfully aware that people in places like Africa need to understand these things so I put up free videos without the plugins and explain these things so even if you can not afford a plugin you can learn it manually.
What does DTD say.. If you try to learn color separations as one man shop it will hurt your business.
Well enough of you here using my training know better...
If you are upset with me I can understand that but the guys like DTD don't reveal the secrets or science and things you need for your success. I take your success very seriously even if you cannot afford to pay for something.
I built [url=http://www.opentshirts.org]www.opentshirts.org[/url] ([url]http://www.opentshirts.org[/url]) free open source.. why?
Because if you are just getting started you will be able to compete online if you want to put the work into it. Like I did with open source when I was just getting started.
And we are just getting start with color whats coming up is really going to blow you away...
I don't care if he said that all to you or not. If he said it to you there keep it there. This forum isn't that one. You came here acting like a child. That's the facts.....
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Yup, Brandt and Homer are both right.
How about BOTH of you guys just knock it the f*ck off.
Here is the deal...
Dan, your are the top sep-ster I've worked with, your stuff works first time in almost every case. That is why I LOVE sending the complex stuff to you because I know I can print it. Also, your art is great as well. I noticed that almost all of the samples on the wall have either been designed and sepped by dan, or at least sepped by you.
Tom, your macros are freaking great. They improve workflow and just plain make my life easier. Simple Seps Raster is awesome, every job I have used it on has printed great.
Both of you guys are an asset to our industry...so let's act like adults and move on.
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I'm chose not to feed this thread any more, the other night. This is it.
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I am successful without DTD too what is the problem?
i think its mainly that you are acting like a cock. I came here to not deal with crap from idiots like you, think im done here.
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I do have to say that yes, this forum was established as a place where folks could hope to avoid this kind of thing, and it will not continue!
Tom, you and your vast CorelDRAW, color management, and software skills are welcome. Your anger and rabid rant is not. Please choose wisely.
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I am successful without DTD too what is the problem?
i think its mainly that you are acting like a cock. I came here to not deal with crap from idiots like you, think im done here.
Stick around Nick, no one wants to see you, or anyone else leave.
Steve
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Best bet would be for everyone to stop posting in this thread and just let things die off.
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When all else fails...
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Well interesting thread….
To all the analyst’s and name hurlers etc. If you got a mirror you can start there. I have not hurled a single name or analysis at anyone here. I have been factual and blunt. Which I can see why you might be offended by that and if I so I am sorry you are or were offended.
I tend to be blunt that is my personality I dig up the facts and present the solutions in truth. I have very little tolerance for things that are not based in facts. If you believe something that is not based in fact and discuss it with me I will tell you if you are wrong. I guess that is just me.
Now my position concerning color and separations, like it or not we as an industry have suffered serious issues in the color arena and as a result there is allot of misunderstanding and very bad information floating around. Because of that things like Simulated Process are far more difficult than they ever should have been.
Let’s look at the typical sim process work flow.. Which by the way is very little separation and lots of color correction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Oy_GZlxtHg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Oy_GZlxtHg)
This workflow is more color correction than color separation. All the tone curving and masking etc is a night mare work flow. Which is why only a few can handle it. And with all of the human judgment calls no wonder it has been such a problem.
Why is that what happened to the color?
Screen Printing CMYK Separations CorelDRAW compared to PhotoShop (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQJ3J3EATzU#ws)
This is color separation I correct nothing in this simple separation process.
HSB and Screen Printing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCkuZPFyCKk#ws)
However had my colors been pushed around I would have had to do allot of correction. There is a huge difference between color correction and color separation.
I have not referred to my products in this thread I am not trying to push anything except the fact that we as an industry need a color correction. A correction that will open up separation to the masses in the correct color space and color model for screen printing.
When it comes to you my friends, your lives, your work and the labor with which you feed your children I am as serious as a heart attack.
Case in point CorelDRAW X5 was a POS I refused to endorse it… That cost me believe me.
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/graphics-design-help/t154021.html (http://www.t-shirtforums.com/graphics-design-help/t154021.html)
There is a reason why HSB seps work I understand all the math and science behind it. There is a reason why people say things even in this thread like..
I am still amazed…
It is just working with the correct tools in the correct color spaces and color models.
We are going to take all this allot deeper and deeper we go the easier it is going to get.
If you hate me for being me I have no problem with that. But don’t hate message because we need it. Because we all need to be color pros and get the best color prints we can out the door. Every print that goes out of your shop is an advertisement for you. If your clients have the best and most colorful t-shirts that speaks for you and your business.
Again if I offended you I am sorry.